Most hated class?

[Mathieulombardi]

Ease of damage, burst damage, mitigation and health pools are only part of deciding what makes a class overpowered or not. In regards to balance, I personally wouldn't lower protection either; Instead there'd be mechanical changes where one mechanic counteracts another, or one that'd nullify such mechanic, so on so forth. It'd add more strategy based on anticipation, positioning and decision making than straight up my numbers beat your numbers.

Let's look at the list:
hox has crappiest cc's - no they don't
necros only have 1 decent stun and one stupid long snare from frozen hatred - they have many more
hox in t4 gear just dies - this is just wrong
etc...
(Btw even in my bb/sc geared sin I've never been hit for 4k from tts.)

There are certain classes that excel 1v1 in particular terrain. However in this game of 6v6 and 12v12, every single map favours range classes. They're the easiest game to play, and they have the most amount of ccs to control a battlefield. With LO casters finally have something to read off, think about first before spamming spells. If you have a ranger on your team, he should be tracking the sin constantly as well. Team based game, can't blame a certain class or mechanic b/c you can't combat it, or your team can't gel properly.

Edited by Arishanya to remove personal remarks. Flaming/Trolling is against the Social Guidelines.

[-tomhet-]

lo needs to be adjusted and protection in soldiers/healers pvp sets should be reduced adding more dps stats instead.

as to my cc claims i realy only find stuns and kb eficient and find hox cc's the most predictable followed by necro's fear.

every single hox i seen using full t4 got rezfarmed fast, best hoxs i see active all use pvp gear.

ranger's taking the shot with all shield up crits me for over 3.5k often maybe its crom server's abundance of full t4 rangers.
i see my combat log spammed by target must be bellow 35 from 100% my health to 0 when fighting a ranger i guide myself by having chat open as soon as i see that message i try and break line of sight.
as soon i reach the aim 35% health i get oneshoted so does everyone else independant how high crit shows on your combat log.
player like dinub or davijr, raythorn often deal me 3.5k tts crits, and around 4-4.5k crits if shields arent all up should this be normal???
i think it should not its lamest skill ingame.

[Mathieulombardi]

Lo just adds another aspect to the caster game where you'd have to read off and have some strategy for easy classes. Soldier/healer pvp pro set shouldn't be severely reduced as their range is limited. Without it, it's just another period of age of casters. Stacking casters already give a team an adavantage on most maps, unless it's a flagbot game or those casters/rangers are only there to play for themselves and don't help each other at all.

It's obvie that correlation doesn't always mean causation. So t4 hoxes on your servers do poorly, maybe it's just b/c they're bad hoxes, not that t4 gear is bad. But as you know, the game is also about balance. FC has obvie made pvp gear protection based. If in those minis those hoxes are facing 2 demo 2 necro a pom and a sin, obvie he should be wearing pvp protection gear. Most people would mix and match gear to get the best of all worlds, or, switch gear during fights to gain the most advantage.

There are a lot of lame things in aoc. Tts is just one of them. But I've never been hit for 4-4.5k even if my sheilds aren't up. Maybe your server has more geared rangers that you see it often, b/c I don't get hit by tts for 3+k that often. But I've already agreed that rangers are the most hated class in the game.

[Baasura]

Let's look at the list:
hox has crappiest cc's - no they don't

While i do agree with most things you wrote this is statement i dont agree with.
fear: damn slow and easy to run away, interrupt
stun: damn slow and easy to run away, interrupt
root: slow and unless you invest points in extra range its bad, but even than its hard to hit someone running away with it. but lets say its semi decent

Every class have better cc than hox.

I find bit funny how someone mentioned that is easy to kite sin as necro. On my newbie lvl 2 sin i use trybrid spec and i can kill lvl 10 casters with it with not much problem, unless ofc they dont run for watter or something like it.
Please tell me how necro can run away from me when i can break any cc and have speed buf. that is if i dont attack him from hide and deal tons of dmg from start.
I really believe that lo should be fixed on sin somehow. This way its just bit silly.

Btw i mostly play barb and hox now, only 2 classes i feel i can contribute with and not feel to OP.

[-tomhet-]

Lo just adds another aspect to the caster game where you'd have to read off and have some strategy for easy classes. Soldier/healer pvp pro set shouldn't be severely reduced as their range is limited. Without it, it's just another period of age of casters. Stacking casters already give a team an adavantage on most maps, unless it's a flagbot game or those casters/rangers are only there to play for themselves and don't help each other at all.

It's obvie that correlation doesn't always mean causation. So t4 hoxes on your servers do poorly, maybe it's just b/c they're bad hoxes, not that t4 gear is bad. But as you know, the game is also about balance. FC has obvie made pvp gear protection based. If in those minis those hoxes are facing 2 demo 2 necro a pom and a sin, obvie he should be wearing pvp protection gear. Most people would mix and match gear to get the best of all worlds, or, switch gear during fights to gain the most advantage.

There are a lot of lame things in aoc. Tts is just one of them. But I've never been hit for 4-4.5k even if my sheilds aren't up. Maybe your server has more geared rangers that you see it often, b/c I don't get hit by tts for 3+k that often. But I've already agreed that rangers are the most hated class in the game.

tts should be removed or at least given a cast time so it can be line of sight or other avoidance mechanics like double tapping for evade

i never said nerf protection on soldiers to oblivium, i think more protection then t3 gear and a less then current protection would be adquate with added crit rating+crit damage rating and tenacity
the critigation amounts do make a diference in pvp especialy when everyone is crit so much, i think reducing the protection and adding more dps stats wouldnt nerf woul simply make soldiers more vulnerable while making them more deadly so i consider it a good tradeoff if its done in balanced amounts
same for pom/bs sets.
in general same for all pvp sets if i want using full pvp set+some protection rings i can reach 50% protection on necro what for ?

minigame random imbalances arent an argument to defend broken mechanics.

[Mathieulombardi]

We have to be realistic as well as consistent. You think tts should be changed but what about all the other no skill dmg abilities as well as insta ccs. That's a big issue that many things has to change to be balanced.

You don't have to say nerf protection to oblivion, nerffing a lil to a lot it still would be wrong. Nerfing protection is just not the way to go to balance a pvp game. Eventually, pve gear will have even more dps anyways. Giving more deeps to tanks is a terrible idea too. Against range they might never have the chance to use it, and against melee they become insane and even more powerful. One of the biggest mistakes fc admited from 1.05 was not account how hard it was for melee classes to dish out their dps. Lowering tank mitigation and making dps higher doesn't help balance the situation at all, only fall back to old mistakes.

Most pvp games don't adjust simple dmg and mitigation numbers to balance things out. They rely on systematic mechanical changes (I can give you several examples from capcom fighting games to rts like sc2). ATM the worst thing about tanks isn't the dps or mitigation, it's those cc and nullification mechanics. If they can be cc'd, they can be burned down. Atm tanks have tons of aoe and single target cc, but also tons of cc immunity and breaks that nullifies their opponent's ccs. Adjusting these mechanics that allow more strategy for all types of opponents would help more in balancing all classes out as well as add more mental challanges to the game.

As for hox cc's, they're not bad at all. Almost every class has a cast time on cc's. It's up to the player to time things right or cancel out of the cc if their targets are not in range anymore.

Also whalar, it doesn't matter which pvp 10 caster you kill, it matters what the mechanics that balance the mini game that you're both in out. Just because lowbie pvp lvl sins can kill high pvp lvl doesn't indicate poor balance as it indicates bori farming and bad players are at the helm. As tribrid you might have broke every cc and used accele to catch up, but it also means you've used up everything and now 2 guard/dt/conq/barb comes over and cc locks you. In the scheme of a mini game now it's 5v5. In most top down rts, that's an indication of balance, not imbalance.

[Suctum]

That's why most Sins contribute nothing to the mini other than annoying one single caster.

It's over the top now how many sins you see who sit in the middle of the map in stealth for 2-3 minutes at a time waiting for some clothie to get far enough from their team mates to be singled out.

And these also include some sins who are overly geared in full T4. I even saw one guy who had 4 ticklers. Having the best gear you have every advantage in terms of burst dps. Stealth, get your caster kill, and help clear the rest of the combatants, instead it's stealth, kill the caster, and go back in stealth until you see the caster again and watch your team fight outnumbered.

It's also amazing how some of these same sins use every cooldown they have to kill that clothie, and dissappear for another 2-3 minutes. While they wait for ALL of their cooldowns.

Sins are annoying and they have every advantage against a caster...but tbh, most of the games where I have played when the Sin on our team had the most kills is usually a game that I lost. Because it was 5v6 while the sin went to farm some non factor caster instead of focusing real threats.

Sins are balanced, I just hate how easily anyone can get on one and have a chance to kill someone with 1/4 the effort. I also hate how bad most people playing tanks are and allow that sin to come at your caster anytime they want. While they focus....other tanks. lol

There are some good sins and they deserve their respect...but their are much more gimmicky ones that just make you hate the class for the cheapness it offers.

[Suctum]

While i do agree with most things you wrote this is statement i dont agree with.
fear: damn slow and easy to run away, interrupt
stun: damn slow and easy to run away, interrupt
root: slow and unless you invest points in extra range its bad, but even than its hard to hit someone running away with it. but lets say its semi decent

Every class have better cc than hox.

I find bit funny how someone mentioned that is easy to kite sin as necro. On my newbie lvl 2 sin i use trybrid spec and i can kill lvl 10 casters with it with not much problem, unless ofc they dont run for watter or something like it.
Please tell me how necro can run away from me when i can break any cc and have speed buf. that is if i dont attack him from hide and deal tons of dmg from start.
I really believe that lo should be fixed on sin somehow. This way its just bit silly.

Btw i mostly play barb and hox now, only 2 classes i feel i can contribute with and not feel to OP.

BTW, the reason your killing a PvP 10 caster is only 2 reasons:

1. Your being allowed to do so because of how OP a lone sin vs. a caster can be. Where is the team, would you be killing that same caster if they were supported? Are you good enough to waste them and get away before the melee show up? Or are you attacking lone casters on a ledge or running back to the group? If so, how long did you waste waiting to pop out of stealth? Why are you alone and not with the group? Why is that caster not with the group? You see sins shine when they make it a 1v1 situation. 10-1 if that caster had even just 1 other person with them on a PvP 2 I doubt it would be so easy. Once several people decide the sin needs to go away, usually it's farm time for that sin.

or...

2. That PvP 10 caster is a full time bori-warrior with little to no real PvP experience and in that case you could be on a PvP 0 in level 70 blues and waste them.

Also, LO is silly, but hardly game breaking when melee wake up and farm out the sin the same way he farms out the caster.

Sin is like demo, a silly class that can do well 1v1 and in groups with support, but once people decide to focus you and stay on you the match just turns into a silly survival challenge, which is much easier for a Sin because of hide

[SlightlyMad]

...when melee wake up and farm out the sin the same way he farms out the caster.

...but once people decide to focus you and stay on you...

Ppl should have woken up once they see the groups at start of a mini, or in the beginning of a mini but most ppl must be dumb.. or people like me are dumb trying to subdue the real threat but get killed constantly without the support. This makes me miss the old premade days. Currently, chance for a decent minigame team is 20%, for balanced teams it's 10%. For JS values even drop more :P Need pvp feature which reqs organized team play in open world besides buggy sieges.

[Suctum]

Ppl should have woken up once they see the groups at start of a mini, or in the beginning of a mini but most ppl must be dumb.. or people like me are dumb trying to subdue the real threat but get killed constantly without the support. This makes me miss the old premade days. Currently, chance for a decent minigame team is 20%, for balanced teams it's 10%. For JS values even drop more :P Need pvp feature which reqs organized team play in open world besides buggy sieges.

Well you don't have premades anymore so as bad as the pug stomping was then people who got the crap beat out of them always recognized the pattern in which is was done. DPS, Heals, Tanks. Getting beat 100 times you tend to want to know why and try to get better.

Pug minis I'm sure some players watch what decent players do or stay with groups but overall there are so many classes that can grab a fast kill that people tend to wander away from the group or only opportunity attack and then run away and wait for their cooldowns. Newer players tend to always want to solo burn people instead of staying with the group and focusing. Most of the minis I have lost was not so much the quality of skill from players, but people doing their own thing and not playing as a team.