Fury has too many small guilds

[lmagowz]

in aoc flying is a cheat. you have games that have flying mechanics. games are about being fun. it doesnt matter if combo jumping is an exploit or not, the game is better with it.

Funny how players who use melee characters stands what comboskipping don't have any cheat with it. If mages find a way to use spells with instant - you still call it "fun mechanic" or cheat?

[Derled]

Funny how players who use melee characters stands what comboskipping don't have any cheat with it. If mages find a way to use spells with instant - you still call it "fun mechanic" or cheat?

you say that AA help many people? u mean help like this
x2 ranger duel, other has TTS he wins the duel, #skills
Pvp should be competitive and skill based, not "I have grinded more than u have"

With the mindset you have, is this "I level toon to 80, but I cannot go into pvp because I got low aa and crappy green toratge gear, I must farm khitai for half year to have max prots / CC remove from aa so I have little chance in pvp, now i just need to farm alts for pvp tokens " this is completely retarded.

This is how it should go, level a toon to 80, BEING ABLE TO DO COMPETIVE PVP THE SAME DAY I BECOME 80, I should not be forced to GRIND for MONTHS AND MONTHS to be in par with others.
On top of that^ the system used to be even worse. Those who hated pve still farmed it for months just to be "better in pvp" < not really better just win cus stupid design. The moment when you have played pvp for years and other guy play for day gets PVE weapon which is stronger than pvp one, why is he having unfair advantage over me?

[lmagowz]

you say that AA help many people? u mean help like this
x2 ranger duel, other has TTS he wins the duel, #skills
Pvp should be competitive and skill based, not "I have grinded more than u have"

With the mindset you have, is this "I level toon to 80, but I cannot go into pvp because I got low aa and crappy green toratge gear, I must farm khitai for half year to have max prots / CC remove from aa so I have little chance in pvp, now i just need to farm alts for pvp tokens " this is completely retarded.

This is how it should go, level a toon to 80, BEING ABLE TO DO COMPETIVE PVP THE SAME DAY I BECOME 80, I should not be forced to GRIND for MONTHS AND MONTHS to be in par with others.
On top of that^ the system used to be even worse. Those who hated pve still farmed it for months just to be "better in pvp" < not really better just win cus stupid design. The moment when you have played pvp for years and other guy play for day gets PVE weapon which is stronger than pvp one, why is he having unfair advantage over me?

Ok, x2 DT duel, one use comboskip, another one don't use comboskip, #skills. And this is not retarded. Game must have high end game content, and this content must req some grinding. Funcom even provide huge amount of items what give you % bonus with AA exp gain, allow players train skills offline, and increase amount of AA exp gain many times. And even before this adjustement some people already have full AA. T4 PvP sets was included in game date base for years, Funcom just don't use them. Because they don't have people, don't have many, and don't want give one players advantage against other players. They even nerf high end content gear in PvP. And amount of players on Fury and Rage force them working on PvE side in first place.

[Derled]

Ok, x2 DT duel, one use comboskip, another one don't use comboskip, #skills. And this is not retarded. Game must have high end game content, and this content must req some grinding. Funcom even provide huge amount of items what give you % bonus with AA exp gain, allow players train skills offline, and increase amount of AA exp gain many times. And even before this adjustement some people already have full AA. T4 PvP sets was included in game date base for years, Funcom just don't use them. Because they don't have people, don't have many, and don't want give one players advantage against other players. They even nerf high end content gear in PvP. And amount of players on Fury and Rage force them working on PvE side in first place.

that dt thing is plain retarded, its like saying "I click my combos with mouse and then I wonder why I lost "
and when you are doing mini games they should as hell be BALANCED in gear wise, U got any idea how unbalanced they are when other team has pvp 10 team and other has pvp 0 team? this is just lottery, how about learn to play instead of trying to feel good when can win with just the help of "OVERKILL GEAR / AA"

Funcom been favoring pve players for ages, in forums and in games, but ofc the kid with candy bars is happy and the kid that got its candy stolen is unhappy, its simple.
only character "progression" should be in PVE, PVP could have visual changes, achievements, more stats showing besides those that currently are, gear progression in pvp is stupid, especially in mini games. but ofc those who are already maxed out defend current system (not me, since i want my pvp fair and square without winning because of having "better gear"

Just to let u guys know, gear + aa just gives you an illusion that you are good / better. You are not, just because you have 13k hp and ur enemy has 7k hp and u win duel does not make u better :3
Thing Is I got guts to admit that fresh toons does not stand a chance against vets, unless vets roll new toon and farms plain bad people, truth hurts I know. U get over it.

[lmagowz]

that dt thing is plain retarded, its like saying "I click my combos with mouse and then I wonder why I lost "
and when you are doing mini games they should as hell be BALANCED in gear wise, U got any idea how unbalanced they are when other team has pvp 10 team and other has pvp 0 team? this is just lottery, how about learn to play instead of trying to feel good when can win with just the help of "OVERKILL GEAR / AA"

Naked PvP mini-games.

Funcom been favoring pve players for ages, in forums and in games, but ofc the kid with candy bars is happy and the kid that got its candy stolen is unhappy, its simple.
only character "progression" should be in PVE, PVP could have visual changes, achievements, more stats showing besides those that currently are, gear progression in pvp is stupid, especially in mini games. but ofc those who are already maxed out defend current system (not me, since i want my pvp fair and square without winning because of having "better gear"

It's simply because MMO always favoring pve players over pvp players. If you want fair, balanced pvp, duels, mass pvp - don't play MMO. PvP always was and always will be as "just another feature", like raids or craft.

Just to let u guys know, gear + aa just gives you an illusion that you are good / better. You are not, just because you have 13k hp and ur enemy has 7k hp and u win duel does not make u better :3
Thing Is I got guts to admit that fresh toons does not stand a chance against vets, unless vets roll new toon and farms plain bad people, truth hurts I know. U get over it.

How about PvE? You don't count how many hp have regular mob? That's just unfair! And how you want to fix it? Remove all vets from game, or remove all fresh toons? Go to Entity, Zodiac or T5 Vistirx, spend 2-3 hours for wipes with fresh toons, and may be you get over it too.

[Derled]

Naked PvP mini-games.



It's simply because MMO always favoring pve players over pvp players. If you want fair, balanced pvp, duels, mass pvp - don't play MMO. PvP always was and always will be as "just another feature", like raids or craft.



How about PvE? You don't count how many hp have regular mob? That's just unfair! And how you want to fix it? Remove all vets from game, or remove all fresh toons? Go to Entity, Zodiac or T5 Vistirx, spend 2-3 hours for wipes with fresh toons, and may be you get over it too.

U are literally not making any sense man, no one cares what u do in pve okay? no one cares how much hp vistrix has, do it have 100 hp or 10000 hp, it does not brake any balance between u and me, because for both of us it has the same hp. U understand this?

but if we have pvp fight, where I have 15k hp and you have 10k hp, that is unfair. anyways this thread is going all over bs ranting with someone who is forcefully trying to make an arguments ( which are so god damn weak that I got bored when I read it)

[Rathothis]

Ok, x2 DT duel, one use comboskip, another one don't use comboskip, #skills. And this is not retarded. Game must have high end game content, and this content must req some grinding. Funcom even provide huge amount of items what give you % bonus with AA exp gain, allow players train skills offline, and increase amount of AA exp gain many times. And even before this adjustement some people already have full AA. T4 PvP sets was included in game date base for years, Funcom just don't use them. Because they don't have people, don't have many, and don't want give one players advantage against other players. They even nerf high end content gear in PvP. And amount of players on Fury and Rage force them working on PvE side in first place.

Quite frankly, you are not making sense. What is the point of grinding in PvP? It makes the outcome less skill-based, and it raises entry barriers for new players. The effect is undesirable because it rewards the wrong kind of behaviour (maxing your progression speed instead of having fun), and because it limits participation (noobs get punished for lacking gear and AA, on top of their lack of knowledge of game mechanics).

Sure PvE content requires a certain amount of grinding, but there is no need to extend the grind to PvP (e.g. structured PvP in GW2).

And in your example, the second DT should win, full stop.

[Sarhal]

Quite frankly, you are not making sense. What is the point of grinding in PvP? It makes the outcome less skill-based, and it raises entry barriers for new players. The effect is undesirable because it rewards the wrong kind of behaviour

Indeed, 100% true. Especially in AoC case we can see double bladed knife effect, when such progression driving away any pvp players and driven away veterans because they have not many people to pvp with. So in our case it hurting both sides of community.

[lmagowz]

Because MMO always have barriers. You can't remove them. You can't turn newbies into veterans from instant. You can't balance all 12 classes. Funcom don't advertise AoC, and don't spend money to find new players. Different clases can't have same amount of health, because they have different roles in the game. MMO can't be based on "fair" rules and you can't judge it from duels. Tanks and healers always have and will have more health when mages and rogues, and you can't change it. Players driven away because Funcom A)Don't care about players and don't have any actions against cheaters and B)Produce both PvE and PvP content very slow. In ideal, they must create new content every 6 months, but they create stupid things like cosmetic pets, pet arena or Instance Finder system. People never ask about it and don't want to pay for this. If they create new content, it sucks big way (like Vanaheim), because Funcom spend most of resources for other games.

As example, players get full T3 or full T4, or full T5 set, and stop paying for sub, because they don't want to gear their other chars. They don't want to gear other chars, because all sets what Funcom introduce in last two years sucks. They sucks, because Funcom listen to people who cry about "rising barriers". Amount of players with sub decreases, and because Funcom have stupid idea about 24-man raid in first place, people stop paying, because they can't find enough people for raid.

[Rathothis]

Because MMO always have barriers. You can't remove them. You can't turn newbies into veterans from instant. You can't balance all 12 classes. Funcom don't advertise AoC, and don't spend money to find new players. Different clases can't have same amount of health, because they have different roles in the game. MMO can't be based on "fair" rules and you can't judge it from duels. Tanks and healers always have and will have more health when mages and rogues, and you can't change it. Players driven away because Funcom A)Don't care about players and don't have any actions against cheaters and B)Produce both PvE and PvP content very slow. In ideal, they must create new content every 6 months, but they create stupid things like cosmetic pets, pet arena or Instance Finder system. People never ask about it and don't want to pay for this. If they create new content, it sucks big way (like Vanaheim), because Funcom spend most of resources for other games.

As example, players get full T3 or full T4, or full T5 set, and stop paying for sub, because they don't want to gear their other chars. They don't want to gear other chars, because all sets what Funcom introduce in last two years sucks. They sucks, because Funcom listen to people who cry about "rising barriers". Amount of players with sub decreases, and because Funcom have stupid idea about 24-man raid in first place, people stop paying, because they can't find enough people for raid.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. You are right when you state that you cannot achieve perfect balance in a MMO (the same also goes for arguably more competitive genres like MOBAs). But it doesn't follow that you can introduce any level of imbalance without driving away players.

You can't deduce the right level of imbalance from what is "inherent to MMOs", it's a question of what players are willing to accept. And experience shows that games which eliminate the gear gap (e.g. structured PvP in GW2), or which allow you to obtain gear quite fast (e.g. WoW) do better than a game like AoC with its focus on grinding. Hell, think back to how attractive PvP was in AoC, when there was no AA and PvP didn't have any gear rewards worth speaking of - and then compare it to now, when we have the carrots of new PvP T1, and then T2 and T3 dangling in front of our face. Maybe the gear grinding carrot just isn't that tasty. Maybe there is a larger number of players who would rather compete on a level playing field, which allows them to win by skill (if they are good) or work on improving their skills (if they are not good yet).