Crafting suggestions/concerns/info from the old forums

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 14:51
#19 Silirrion

Funcom
As I mentioned in the other thread, recipes aren't part of the new system.

The very idea of them won't exist anymore once the new system goes live. 'Recipes', as a concept, are gone in the new system. There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

So there isn't anything to convert there at all, the very idea of a recipe (as an arbitrary blocker to creating an item) simply doesn't exist in the new system. Anyone can try and make anything...the key of course will be the ingredients and combinations.

In terms of items, as mentioned yesterday, the items themselves will still be there. Anything that was made prior to the changes will still be there.

You just won't be able to make them again after the changes.

Those items will in effect become legacy items that were created by the old system. They will continue to exist, people just won't be able to make new ones.


We will though be making sure that veterans get some form of boost or 'head start' with the new system. It is a little early for any final decisions there however and that is something we will confirm during final testing. Rest assured however that we be sure to provide something to you all as recognition of previous efforts.
__________________
Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
Game Directo

Old 29th February 2012, 15:05
#20 Argantes

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
... There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.
...

will those discovered reci.. err, let´s call them formulas then... will they be saved in the craft book somehow or will we have to write them down on a piece of paper next to our keyboard?

this new system kinda reminds me on the craft system i´ve seen in the Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (demo), actually

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 15:10
#21 TBird69

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
As I mentioned in the other thread, recipes aren't part of the new system.

The very idea of them won't exist anymore once the new system goes live. 'Recipes', as a concept, are gone in the new system. There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

So there isn't anything to convert there at all, the very idea of a recipe (as an arbitrary blocker to creating an item) simply doesn't exist in the new system. Anyone can try and make anything...the key of course will be the ingredients and combinations.

In terms of items, as mentioned yesterday, the items themselves will still be there. Anything that was made prior to the changes will still be there.

You just won't be able to make them again after the changes.

Those items will in effect become legacy items that were created by the old system. They will continue to exist, people just won't be able to make new ones.


We will though be making sure that veterans get some form of boost or 'head start' with the new system. It is a little early for any final decisions there however and that is something we will confirm during final testing. Rest assured however that we be sure to provide something to you all as recognition of previous efforts.

It better be a lot more then just some form or boost or head start it best put us on par where we currently are now. Instead of totally remaking the system you could have tweeked it here and there and just added some things that's what most were calling for not going overboard and totally wiping out what people have worked hard for and spent countless gold on. For some reason I don't totally buy the goods you're trying to sell if past experence figures into it where we get a few bottles of useless stuff as compensation.

Old 29th February 2012, 15:47
#22 kana86

so if I understand it, the player will select from a list of what it means to create (1h sword, 2h sword, shield, etc.)at this point will have a window where you will place the materials of his choice, and the effect appears.
right?

I just hope there is a simple window, clear and will not be via dialogue as the key to crafting the house of crom

I also hope that they are necessary to start the crafting forges, and other static tools.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 15:48
#23 Zaelot

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
As I mentioned in the other thread, recipes aren't part of the new system.

The very idea of them won't exist anymore once the new system goes live. 'Recipes', as a concept, are gone in the new system. There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

So there isn't anything to convert there at all, the very idea of a recipe (as an arbitrary blocker to creating an item) simply doesn't exist in the new system. Anyone can try and make anything...the key of course will be the ingredients and combinations.

In terms of items, as mentioned yesterday, the items themselves will still be there. Anything that was made prior to the changes will still be there.

You just won't be able to make them again after the changes.

Those items will in effect become legacy items that were created by the old system. They will continue to exist, people just won't be able to make new ones.


We will though be making sure that veterans get some form of boost or 'head start' with the new system. It is a little early for any final decisions there however and that is something we will confirm during final testing. Rest assured however that we be sure to provide something to you all as recognition of previous efforts.

So culture+City crafted items as starter items (since barely any other blue items except all wearing khitai) are as good to start a fresh 80 toon will all be gone???

Crafted ibis's???

Crafted T3??? If crafted T2/3 go, there is HUGE imbalance since nothing possible in game is anywhere near to them.

Old 29th February 2012, 15:51
#24 Zaelot

Originally Posted by KANA86 View Post
so if I understand it, the player will select from a list of what it means to create (1h sword, 2h sword, shield, etc.)at this point will have a window where you will place the materials of his choice, and the effect appears.
right?

I just hope there is a simple window, clear and will not be via dialogue as the key to crafting the house of crom

I also hope that they are necessary to start the crafting forges, and other static tools.
Then they'll be completely useless unless they are better than current khitai stuffs, since, for a start all raid and eavailable epics would be better.

They sound like they are replacing a lost crafting system with a just-as-pointless one for items etc.

Old 29th February 2012, 16:03
#25 kana86

Originally Posted by Zaelot View Post
Then they'll be completely useless unless they are better than current khitai stuffs, since, for a start all raid and eavailable epics would be better.

They sound like they are replacing a lost crafting system with a just-as-pointless one for items etc.

I do not think that the new crafting is useful or less than epic or blue Khitai. I hope and believe that there will be many epic and rare ingredients (dungeon/raid loot), to create a lot of rare items

would be useless to revamp the crafting system, whether it would be useful for the veteran players, or you would not have business

Funcom should especially revamp the crafting for this reason, that make it useful or essential for veterans player

[Kurt2013]

29th February 2012, 18:17
#26 K4nnyc

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
As I mentioned in the other thread, recipes aren't part of the new system.

The very idea of them won't exist anymore once the new system goes live. 'Recipes', as a concept, are gone in the new system. There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

So there isn't anything to convert there at all, the very idea of a recipe (as an arbitrary blocker to creating an item) simply doesn't exist in the new system. Anyone can try and make anything...the key of course will be the ingredients and combinations.

In terms of items, as mentioned yesterday, the items themselves will still be there. Anything that was made prior to the changes will still be there.

You just won't be able to make them again after the changes.

Those items will in effect become legacy items that were created by the old system. They will continue to exist, people just won't be able to make new ones.


We will though be making sure that veterans get some form of boost or 'head start' with the new system. It is a little early for any final decisions there however and that is something we will confirm during final testing. Rest assured however that we be sure to provide something to you all as recognition of previous efforts.

As per usual you avoid many of the concerns people are voicing so Ill ask them directly.

1. Will you reimburse per recipe for the people who will have them deleted? Person with 1 recipe gets x, person with 60 recipes gets xxx. If not why not? If yes what and how much will you give us. An in depth detailed answer is required here, no beating about the bush please.

2. T3 crafting. The recipes people bought, will you reimburse tokens and gold. If not why not.

Nobody is under the illusion that this crafting system is the main issue the game is in such dire straits right now, so quite why you focus on this instead of other more obvious issues is a total mystery. But an answer to these 2 questions would go a long way on calming down some pissed off people.

29th February 2012, 18:35
#27 Silirrion

Originally Posted by K4nnyc View Post
As per usual you avoid many of the concerns people are voicing so Ill ask them directly.

1. Will you reimburse per recipe for the people who will have them deleted? Person with 1 recipe gets x, person with 60 recipes gets xxx. If not why not? If yes what and how much will you give us. An in depth detailed answer is required here, no beating about the bush please.

2. T3 crafting. The recipes people bought, will you reimburse tokens and gold. If not why not.

Nobody is under the illusion that this crafting system is the main issue the game is in such dire straits right now, so quite why you focus on this instead of other more obvious issues is a total mystery. But an answer to these 2 questions would go a long way on calming down some pissed off people.

Not avoiding anything. I think we've covered this already in the other replies, but I can confirm again here easily enough.

1. Recipes cease to exist in the new system, so there is nothing for them to be converted into.

It is a totally new way of approaching it. We will have removed that arbitrary restriction of having to have the recipe. Recipes won't be 'replaced' because there is nothing to replace them with.

As I have said clearly in the other threads the details of how and what we will do in order to give veterans a head start with the new system will be decided during testing. There is no specifics to give there yet because the final resources and items are not determined yet. Once the testing is in progress we will address the head start items that will be awarded.

We may for example allow people to re-use old resources, or trade them in (or refine them) for ingredients in the new system...it is however simply too early in the process to decide on the exact form of the head start that we will give to veterans. It is also important that this isn't revealed just yet to avoid people trying to game it, or profiteer off it (as it tends to lead to an increase in attempted scams, and players trying to take advantage of each other, something we want to avoid)


2. There will be equivalent items in the new system, so raids will still have that motivation. All items made prior to the change will still be there untouched. Those who already have the recipe have notice now to create the items they wish to make with the recipes prior to the change-over. It is not like this is happening next week, we are some months away from release of the new system.
__________________
Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
Game Director

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 18:42
#28 K4nnyc

Well, you have to understand that people develop their characters and when you mess about with that it annoys people big time.

So if there is no reimbursement for a crafter with many recipes or something comparable to set them above a day 1 week 1 crafter then you are going to see people leave again.

You have been warned Silirion. You ruined pvp completely, so pay attention to the pve players concerns and dont screw up pve as well.

Old 29th February 2012, 18:54
#29 Silirrion

Originally Posted by K4nnyc View Post
Well, you have to understand that people develop their characters and when you mess about with that it annoys people big time.

So if there is no reimbursement for a crafter with many recipes or something comparable to set them above a day 1 week 1 crafter then you are going to see people leave again.

You have been warned Silirion. You ruined pvp completely, so pay attention to the pve players concerns and dont screw up pve as well.

Well, while I'll ignore the obvious trolling of what we have or have not broken, I think it's down to you whether you choose to approach it constructively or not.

Yes, change is scary, we understand that. I am even sure that some people will wish to keep the old system, although I don't think there are many that truly love it. That is the point here, we are trying to introduce a system that will add a degree of depth and engagement to the game that it currently lacks. That is not a bad intention, and I am confident the design that the systems folk have for it will see that intention become a reality when it rolls out.

Yes, I am sure that there will be some that, regardless of what we offer, will think they have been short-changed in any conversion, and with something on this scale it may not be possible to be completely 'fair' depending on your perspective.

There will, to use an over-used expression, be some breaking of some eggs to make the omelette. Given it is a totally different concept, it means there won't be exact conversions or reimbursement, but we will do our best to ensure that those past achievements are recognized in some way, as best as we can.

Improving the games crafting is something that has long been asked for by many players, and I think the team have listened to the players feedback and come up with a great design that will offer a really interesting system that people will enjoy for many years to come.
__________________
Craig 'Silirrion' Morrison
Game Director

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 18:55
#30 PAMPAM

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post

1. Recipes cease to exist in the new system, so there is nothing for them to be converted into.

It is a totally new way of approaching it. We will have removed that arbitrary restriction of having to have the recipe. Recipes won't be 'replaced' because there is nothing to replace them with.

As I have said clearly in the other threads the details of how and what we will do in order to give veterans a head start with the new system will be decided during testing. There is no specifics to give there yet because the final resources and items are not determined yet. Once the testing is in progress we will address the head start items that will be awarded.

fair enough - as long as the head start as well is fair enough. thumbs up.

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
We may for example allow people to re-use old resources, or trade them in (or refine them) for ingredients in the new system...

thumbs up, as long as the trade off is fair enough. For instance the mechanics where you turn in crafted set and get amount of renown, was not a fair trade in any possible way, and thus ppl did not really never even use it. (do they even remember the system exit)

Old 29th February 2012, 19:05
#31 PAMPAM

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
Yes, change is scary, we understand that. I am even sure that some people will wish to keep the old system, although I don't think there are many that truly love it.

I for instance never liked the current system. I wrote many posts about is as well, as well as I made a thank you pos on the forum about the new system that you plan to bring in.

I completely approve new system.

However - what I do not approve is making peoples work and resources obsolete, or close to obsolete. If they paid for certain resource for 30g-100g/piece and after trade off the value would be around 50 silver, it will simply not be a good trade off.

But as it is market that decides the price of an item, I think I should try to give you something to help you here.
-1st options is to check the market prices of items, and you set the price of item to that 50-100% of that level, so people can sell the items at vendor and get back gold (fair deal and goes according to market price)
-2nd option is to make the decission of item value according to rarity of the item in the market. Check your database of how much of certain item is in the game, and then make a tradeoff to new resources according to rarity of each item
-3rd option is to first check the rarity of item in the market and then trade them to new vendor tokens, that can be used to buy new crafting resources at a vendor. Same vendor would as well buy resoruces from the market with 30% of the price that it is selling them.
-4th option: make decission of the price according to rarity of item and the level of item. Then trade the items to comparable resouces in new system.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th February 2012, 19:10
#32 TS-Ptah

Hey Sil,


Just trying to figure out this new system..If I've understood it correctly, skill level boosts item stats and can also "crit" and provide extra stats. But are you planning on having a cap on these stats? Will it be tuned with future tier sets, so that the crafting never goes obsolete?

And if you want to make "the best" gear its all about finding the right combination of ingredients?

Old 1st March 2012, 10:08
#41 blynd

There is also the argument that those recipe farmers have been making a fortune and so they are worried they will no longer make lots of gold.

I like the idea of being able to make anything but it all depends on how much of it you have made as to how good it is and how successful you are.


I'd like to know though is it going to give infinite possibilities and will we be able to use existing armours and weapons and tweek them up with some crafting to them ????

I'd also like to point out that fc have gone with the easy option as fixing and altering the existing system is much harder then starting from scratch and so they have opted to take the easy option. This isn't a good or bad thing as both systems will be very different and we will have to see what happens

Old 1st March 2012, 10:33
#42 redevil82

Originally Posted by blynd View Post
I'd also like to point out that fc have gone with the easy option as fixing and altering the existing system is much harder then starting from scratch and so they have opted to take the easy option. This isn't a good or bad thing as both systems will be very different and we will have to see what happens

I would say the complete opposite of that statement is true tbh

Starting for scratch always involves more work than tweaking existing content.

Old 1st March 2012, 10:38
#43 Zaelot

If armour weapons etc are sub par to current then the system remains redundant. Especially if you can't sell them, while making your own epics would be hilarious that is also not practical.

What is being done so that the new crafting system is not just redundant except potions and food?

Old 1st March 2012, 13:24
#44 paulson

Originally Posted by Zaelot View Post
If armour weapons etc are sub par to current then the system remains redundant. Especially if you can't sell them, while making your own epics would be hilarious that is also not practical.

What is being done so that the new crafting system is not just redundant except potions and food?

You can craft epics in the new system, but to do so, you'll need to refine your ingredients untill you get epic versions of the ingredients. So basicly epics are going to be relative rare and expensive, but a option for players who dont want to raid or du dungeons.

[Kurt2013]

Old 1st March 2012, 14:31
#45 D-Drago

Originally Posted by paulson View Post
You can craft epics in the new system, but to do so, you'll need to refine your ingredients untill you get epic versions of the ingredients. So basicly epics are going to be relative rare and expensive, but a option for players who dont want to raid or du dungeons.

Those ppl mostly dont want to craft and farm recipes either

Old 1st March 2012, 15:50
#47 TribunLeader

so FC you decided to "revamp" the crafting system...

well the first thing that comes to my mind for that is that developers come and go in FC and only very few of them managed to live up to their expectations, this being said I think its far too early for any educated guess from our side. best thing we can do is give something like an updated list of suggestions and wishes for the new system so the devs see if they still heading in the right direction.

Architect profession on the other hand is a different story, I am not sure how you will manage to bring city buildings and city decorations together smoothly. from what I read on the news you want to give any guild ambassador/officer the ability to build city buildings like towers, walls, weaponsmith, etc which is a nice idea but nothing really new since any officer can already do that atm if he gets provided with mats from an architect. only difference would be the officer can craft the mats needed for city buildings without having a real architect profession unless they want to craft city decorations. Giving the more social players the option to personalize their guild cities with unique or rare city decorations which could be result of recipe from guild activity like raids or reknown quests and rare mats could work out nicely.

Doing recipe hunts can, depending on the dungeon, be fun actually with a group of friends. taking this element out instead of thinking of a way how to make it more interesting and rewarding again would be a shame imo.

Old 1st March 2012, 19:03
#50 MagnusLL

A couple of requests, if at all possible.

A) dropping all the old recipes means a whole lot of armor and weapon models will become unavailable. Please find a way of keeping them into the game, if nothing else just as vanity items with no stats (and by "keeping them" I mean "keep a way of introducing new copies of them into the game", not just keep the currently existing copies).

B) do **NOT** tie crafting the most powerful items to dungeon/raid encounters, like what happens now with Ibis and T3 crafting. This will, once again, reduce crafting to a simple subfunction of raiding.
Ideally a player who is completely dedicated to crafting should be able to craft the most powerful items even with a level 1 toon i.e. crafting should be decoupled from PvE and be a game activity in its own right; an alternative path of character advancement, if you want, which has nothing to do with how much ass can the toon kick in combat.
I realize this is a "sandbox-type" implementation and AoC is a themepark MMO, and this concept could be not entirely feasible, but if you feel the overriding need of linking some part of the crafting process to groups/raids activities at least make all such resources tradable so that a dedicated crafter can still purchase them with gold. If the only way of crafting top-level stuff is to be in a raid yourself with your crafting toon, then crafting as its own activity will never come into being and whatever you're trying to achieve will not happen; crafting will keep being a byproduct of raiding.

[Kurt2013]

Old 1st March 2012, 19:58
#51 PAMPAM

Originally Posted by MagnusLL View Post
B) do **NOT** tie crafting the most powerful items to dungeon/raid encounters, like what happens now with Ibis and T3 crafting. This will, once again, reduce crafting to a simple subfunction of raiding.
Ideally a player who is completely dedicated to crafting should be able to craft the most powerful items even with a level 1 toon i.e. crafting should be decoupled from PvE and be a game activity in its own right; an alternative path of character advancement, if you want, which has nothing to do with how much ass can the toon kick in combat.

I completely aggree apart from the level 1 part.

Crafting is a job for individuals. Do not put crafting to t3 or t4 encounters. It is not a guild job to craft - it is individual players job to craft. If you HAVE to tie the crafting to t4 or t3 - make some of the resources to drop there. This way the individuals have access to the resouces through market, but good guilds will have the best of it.

Seriously - it was a big turn off for all the real crafters in game, when you introduced the raid crafting. Sure it was a challenge for the guilds, but for the crafters, the players who simply love crafting it was a big turn off....

Old 3rd March 2012, 05:34
#55 Bignose

Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

I can't help to translate that: "We have removed the fun part of crafting, and now the system will be based on your ability to alt+tab to a third party web-site and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item."

Please please please don't take recipes away, what you call "a bottleneck" has provided me with the most fun out of all systems in AoC. Nothing beats opening that jewled chest to find a new recipe, which upon learning develops your char permanently.

Old 3rd March 2012, 10:47
#56 redevil82

Originally Posted by Bignose View Post
I can't help to translate that: "We have removed the fun part of crafting, and now the system will be based on your ability to alt+tab to a third party web-site and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item."

Please please please don't take recipes away, what you call "a bottleneck" has provided me with the most fun out of all systems in AoC. Nothing beats opening that jewled chest to find a new recipe, which upon learning develops your char permanently.

I don't think there is much difference there in terms of 'loot hunting' just instead of getting a recipie which only one person can use you get a rare resource which is used by anyone with the right profession to make the item.

The benefit of this is that currently once you have got your imba recipie you will never go back to the place you found it again and will be less interested in help others do the same. In future you will need to go back if you need more of the special resource.

[Kurt2013]

Old 3rd March 2012, 10:52
#57 Touchii

So far what I want to know is, what will happen to crafting ecounters in W3 and T3? how will that effect the weapons? are shards still usefull for those ecounters? I mean lots of ppl saved gold and shards to get those weapons, is it possible to make those weapons btter with the new system? what will happen to gems?

Old 3rd March 2012, 11:26
#58 Kurt777

Originally Posted by redevil82 View Post
I don't think there is much difference there in terms of 'loot hunting' just instead of getting a recipie which only one person can use you get a rare resource which is used by anyone with the right profession to make the item.

The benefit of this is that currently once you have got your imba recipie you will never go back to the place you found it again and will be less interested in help others do the same. In future you will need to go back if you need more of the special resource.

Yes, i really hope they do it this way...instead of having to fill 6 peoples crafting slots with one item (group based crafting). This would ruin the fun for any smaller guild or trader.
If this system works or not will probably be depandant upon, if some items are BoP or BoE (BoP ressources will be fail). If these smaller crafters can buy ressources and craft good stuff (even without being in a raid guild) and trader chars could buy and sell rare items with a small profit, the system might work.

Old 5th March 2012, 14:41
#59 Lurvi

Recipiehunting is one of best moments for me. I sure hope you add something new to hunt. With the same low droprate of 5-10% as culture recipies had.

Old 12th March 2012, 01:02
#60 Aell

Originally Posted by hackbauer View Post
Recipiehunting is one of best moments for me. I sure hope you add something new to hunt. With the same low droprate of 5-10% as culture recipies had.

Limiting them to elite instances means they are totally unavailable to solo players and newbies. This is just more "you must be in a big, active guild to enjoy this game" nonsense and is what we call a barrier to entry.

If you make unreasonable demands on people in order to play a game they paid for, they won't pay for it.

See also - number of active servers and subscriptions in 1.05 hit.