Crafting suggestions/concerns/info from the old forums

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 07:24
#6 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
These is terrible news...

I don't like the perspective that I will have to fight rocks to get better gear or rely on those who fight rocks...

Old 29th November 2012, 08:03
#7 LunaticAsylumLA

What is so bad about old armor? Are they going to fix clipping problems? "Looks" is not "clipping", so I doubt it.
Will raids be as valuable as they are right now?
"New crafting nodes" may mean anything like Star Wars beaming or picking onion like in Guild Wars 2 with no attacking monsters at all (that keeps digging in PvE engaging at the moment). This may render gathering either too exhausting or too easy.

Old 29th November 2012, 08:10
#8 Mellaus

Those news seem awesome overall, but i hope people do post their concerns about the points made here on testlive forums so we don't end up with a flawed and exploitable system.

Old 29th November 2012, 08:12
#9 darknessjw

Attacking monsters are now just annoying. Years ago when you were even with their "gear" it was a fight, now its just few second annoying interrupt while digging

Those sounds good

Old 29th November 2012, 08:14
#10 cynara

I like the idea of some of the crafted armor being comparable (or even a little better than) raid armor -- it's needed to keep crafting relevant in the long term. Otherwise we'll have the same situation as now -- people don't bother using crafted gear because they either already have something better, or they'll get something better soon enough. It's not a coincidence that the most active part of crafting nowadays involves items that are already comparable to raid gear (i.e. T2/T3 crafted weapons).

As for deconstructing items, I agree that it sounds potentially problematic if everyone will need on everything in pugs now... Does anyone know how this is addressed in other games? AFAIK the idea of deconstructing items exists in several other MMOs as well, but I don't know whether they have any mechanisms to discourage everyone from needing on everything all over the place. (You might argue that a similar problem already exists in AoC -- you can sell raid and dungeon purples to NPC vendors for a not entirely trivial amount of money -- and I don't have the impression that this would cause people to need on everything. Greed, yes, but not need, IME at least.)

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 08:19
#11 Scythie

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
These is terrible news...

It's already there though.
The Tier crafting weapons are better than the raid ones.

Sure, you need to craft it in a raid, meaning that many will never ever have a shot at getting one unless the use gold spam services to get it.

Thing i like is that there seems to be a potential to a real progression for crafters. Some players will become great crafters and will be able to sell their goods at a premium through the market. Add to that a crit possibility and look of the thingy... lot of potential i think.

The variety of skins, colors and stats in items will generate a need to collect recipes somewhere though.

Another thing, the possibility to deconstruct means that there will be no more loot rot. People voice the opinion that pugs will die since people will be needing on everything, well don't use need/pass in those raids - sorted.

Also RLs can make it clear that loot rot goes to RL much in the same way shard farmers do now.

Anyway, this system sounds promising at least.

But i do feel sorry for the people that spent a million hours farming for crafting recipes. I hope you get something for your trouble.

Actually, Funcom, make sure they get something for their trouble! Or there will be a ginormous wailing and gnashing of teeth no matter the success of the revamp.

Old 29th November 2012, 08:26
#12 LunaticAsylumLA

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
It's already there though.
The Tier crafting weapons are better than the raid ones.

Not only that. Culture crafted gear is better than raid gear too.
The principle behind crafting T3 and T2 weapons is perfect (a full raid, a lot of resources for which one spends a lot of time and finds a lot of people): if they keep it, then it will be good. Still, my expectations are not the best.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 08:43
#16 cynara

Originally Posted by janbak View Post
Anyone have a link for the whole stream available now?

http://www.twitch.tv/mmorpgcom/b/343759780
http://www.twitch.tv/mmorpgcom/b/343765811

29th November 2012, 08:55
#17 bogus

Originally Posted by cynara View Post
You might argue that a similar problem already exists in AoC -- you can sell raid and dungeon purples to NPC vendors for a not entirely trivial amount of money -- and I don't have the impression that this would cause people to need on everything. Greed, yes, but not need, IME at least.)

Because gold is useless when crafting materials can be used to gear up your toon? Now let's go to something more valid than vendor priece - how many times have you need or had people in group needing on Simple Trophy urns even if probably noone was ever using those relic to buy blue gear from dungeon vendors? Or milestone symbols even if you don't need rings anymore.

Or how you think people in random pugs (not friend/guild groups) would behave if all drops would be Bind on Equip rather than Bind on Pick up? How could you not agree with sin rolling on plate pants because he has guard waiting for those. As group/raid leader ofc you could set different rules, but unless you start using Master Looting and rolling dices (what is terrible waste of time when comes to 5-7 items per box) you have no chance to control who is rolling on what. Right now GM's are not fixing miss/ninja looting in groups, if we won't get any system change they won't be fixing looting in raids too. If everything will be useful to craft then if rules are FFA everyone have rights to roll for.

Originally Posted by Scythie
Another thing, the possibility to deconstruct means that there will be no more loot rot. People voice the opinion that pugs will die since people will be needing on everything, well don't use need/pass in those raids - sorted.

Also RLs can make it clear that loot rot goes to RL much in the same way shard farmers do now.

Why you limit it to raids only? It would be valid for 6-man HMs and NMs too.
And how you control that? Sorting every box 30min?
What is rot loot when all loot can be salvaged into craft parts?
Who actually prove me that my DT won't be using those 'barb' legs I roll for is root loot? Maybe I want them for dps, prove opposite.
You know that only t1-3 armor pieces have class restriction for all others drops soldiers can prove they have need for any item.

Originally Posted by Slith
If anything needs fixing is your attitude.

Which part? I didn't attack you, but now I'm starting to regret I didn't add some L2L according gem slots

In 1st case just added some stuff I find important to point you missed. I don't use pink glases na can add 2 to 2. Played this game long enough to see almost everyday on global stuff like 'ninja tos rolling on necro dagger'. Every item having real value to everyone has to multiple that 100 times.

[Kurt2013]

29th November 2012, 09:26
#19 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
It's already there though.
The Tier crafting weapons are better than the raid ones.

What does "better" mean - better overall or better in one, but vital aspect?

T4 gear is generally better than any gear in the game - (though some items from "lower" tiers can have a better use for certain purposes).

Originally Posted by cynara
I like the idea of some of the crafted armor being comparable (or even a little better than) raid armor -- it's needed to keep crafting relevant in the long term.

Better in every aspect (even than the highest raiding tier?) or just having some interesting stats that could be used to mix with existing sets or used as full sets for very specific purposes?

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
Not only that. Culture crafted gear is better than raid gear too.

Eh? Maybe Stoneheart/Acheronian is better than T1/T2 for tanking magical bosses... can't think of any other example.

Old 29th November 2012, 09:27
#20 dagdasamildanac

great news indeed, i really hope they wont give up on matter that will bring more powerfull items then raiding ones - yeah - at last we will have better pvp items for pvp then silly grind for pve items and pve breakpoints in pvp, i like the idea of vanity armors much since i like to change my looks and additionally spent sometime hours of finding best possible outlook for my characters, im a bit surpirised that it only will be 4 triers for crafted items possibly at 20 40 60 and 80 imo it should be at 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 so items from 30 for example would be comparable or better to sanctum drops for some classes anyway it looks all fine and dandy really i look hopefully into future when game economy ill be ravamped and there will be serious market

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 09:30
#21 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by dagdasamildanac View Post
great news indeed, i really hope they wont give up on matter that will bring more powerfull items then raiding ones - yeah - at last we will have better pvp items for pvp then silly grind for pve items and pve breakpoints in pvp

Grinding PvE to get PvP gear is silly, but grinding rocks to get PvE/PvP gear isn't?

Last time I did a grind/mat-farming was in 2009 and I hope I won't have to do it again.

Raiding just for fun/achievement and getting better gear and AA from other activities? No thanks, I already did that in T3.

Activities that require the most effort (difficulty x time) should be the most rewarding. The rest has to be weaker, even if only a little.

PvPers can continue to dig rocks if they want to, but don't make PvErs do it since they didn't have to do it since a few years.

Old 29th November 2012, 09:39
#22 Scythie

Originally Posted by Misiuggah View Post
What does "better" mean - better overall or better in one, but vital aspect?

T4 gear is generally better than any gear in the game - (though some items from "lower" tiers can have a better use for certain purposes).
Crafted T3 gear is better than T3 drops and also completely unattainable for the vast majority of players.

T4 is also beyond reach for most players.

It is good that there will be other avenues of getting good gear than to give money to gold spammers. Because the Ibis is the fuel in that economy.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 09:49
#23 blynd

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
Not only that. Culture crafted gear is better than raid gear too.

???? enlighten me on what culture gear is better then raid gear ??? i have always got culture set for my alts when they are close to 80 and i have to say they are all sh!t in comparison to raid gear.

tbh this crafting revamp sounds like a mixed bag one that they couldnt work out what ideas to include and what not to so they have tried to include a bit of everything and it sounds so exploitable its shocking. they will kill off the majority of pugs after 2 weeks of mass ninja looting they will kill off raiding and hmm's cause whats the point when you can craft better gear for less effort same goes for pvp ala bhori bullsh!t.

this sounds like it will be horrible i just hope that they dont release it till its been truely tested and all exploits found and eliminated which would mean at least 6 months of test live tests and we all know they want it out before the new year so everyone get ready to use the exploits cause they wont fix it or roll it back as usuall

Old 29th November 2012, 09:49
#24 Naerri

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
What is so bad about old armor? Are they going to fix clipping problems? "Looks" is not "clipping", so I doubt it.

Some old armor textures deserve an overhaul detailwise. They may aswell look into clipping issue while they are at it.

Old 29th November 2012, 09:50
#25 Scythie

Originally Posted by Misiuggah View Post
PvPers can continue to dig rocks if they want to, but don't make PvErs do it since they didn't have to do it since a few years.

Here is the thing though. There are people that love to do that sort of thing. (A mystery to me because to me it's work!) By giving a bona fide progression for some who are willing to do the work AND a chance of getting gold for it in the ingame economy is a great thing.

That is how it was when people could sell culture gear for massive cash.

If johnny crafter learns to craft an especially brutal awesomeness dagger, i am sure he will be able to get good money for it. Thats cool. Thats what the crafting and ingame economy should generate.

With todays sytem, every player with 2 alts can be completely self sufficient. It gives as a result that noone needs to buy anything.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 10:04
#26 ArcaneScientius

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
...
It is good that there will be other avenues of getting good gear than to give money to gold spammers. Because the Ibis is the fuel in that economy.

Precisely. Giving alternative routes to better gear is a good idea, but please note that the best resources (= best gear) will still only drop in raids, meaning raiders will have better PvE gear, while PvP gear will be crafted from PvP drops. I am guessing both will need raid resources, meaning that raiders can sell resources to PvP crafters. Sounds like an economy to me.

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
...
If johnny crafter learns to craft an especially brutal awesomeness dagger, i am sure he will be able to get good money for it. Thats cool. Thats what the crafting and ingame economy should generate.
...

I agree. Just look at the cost of chillcrawler bile on market. Not the best example, but it is a supply and demand type of example, and if crafting can broaden this to gear, not just resources as it is currently, that is perfect.
For example, I am still only raiding t2 and doing HMs for gear, but if I can craft some of the gear I need it gives me more options to do what I want in the game, rather than forcing me to do raids, or HMs. I don't mind either, but I don't want to do them every day.
Forward with crafting!

Old 29th November 2012, 10:09
#27 LunaticAsylumLA

From the perspective of my characters':
Nemedian Cursecaller (more magical damage and a higher critical rating and damage), for sure, can be better than T1 and T2 armor for heralds who have the Possession tree developed;
The Acheronian set is better than T1/T2 in protection for tanking Guardians and Conquerors [for example, mixing it at the first boss in Wing 3 or in Palace, HM, helped me];
I have the full set for my Priest of Mitra, but I have not checked it yet (she is still level 50).

[Kurt2013]

29th November 2012, 10:11
#28 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
It is good that there will be other avenues of getting good gear than to give money to gold spammers. Because the Ibis is the fuel in that economy.

Everytime I have to buy someting for 10+ gold I'm thinking about buying some gold for hard cash. But this is tops for PvE gear and it can be earned relatively quickly if you'll devote some extra time for it.

Ibis costs now a few hundred gold - how much do you think the new epics will cost? Where to get that amount of money? Certainly not from dungeons and raids.

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
Here is the thing though. There are people that love to do that sort of thing.

And may the live long and prosper.

For me one thing is clear - if I like to do X, I should be able to get all I need to do X just from doing X.

This is ****ed up for PvP now, but please - don't **** it up for PvE.

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
Nemedian Cursecaller (more magical damage and a higher critical rating and damage), for sure, can be better than T1 and T2 armor for heralds who have the Possession tree developed.
The Acheronian set is better than T1/T2 in protection for tanking Guardians and Conquerors.

T1-T3 gear is placeholder (except BD/Invicible) since may 2010.

Yes you can get culture set if you buy some gold from farmers or if you're a farmer yourself. Faction gear destroys culture and it's much more interesting to run quests/dungeons than run from node to node to get that 100+ gold to buy sub-par gear.

For me the healthier air is (paradoxically) in Khitai than in Lacheish Plains.

Anyway, as long as there's PvE content that drops better PvE gear than crafted - it's fine by me.

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 10:18
#29 LunaticAsylumLA

Earning gold for a set while levelling the first character by mere selling enchanted resources or crafted gear is not a problem. I levelled like that in 2009-2010. My friend did the same in 2011. For those with alternative characters, spending 40 gold or more should not be a huge problem. Several runs in Frost Swamp, Imrian Ravine, and so on help too!

Old 29th November 2012, 10:22
#30 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA View Post
Earning gold for a set while levelling the first character by mere selling enchanted resources or crafted gear is not a problem. I levelled like that in 2009-2010. My friend did the same in 2011.

I usually get 10g by levelling a character. Let's add 10g if I was actually bothered to sell this crap that dropped from mobs. It's better just to go Northern Grasslands and get epic gear, than to farm the remaining 80g to get blue gear without even learning how to play your class.

Old 29th November 2012, 10:41
#31 Scythie

Originally Posted by Misiuggah View Post

Ibis costs now a few hundred gold - how much do you think the new epics will cost? Where to get that amount of money? Certainly not from dungeons and raids.


Anyway, as long as there's PvE content that drops better PvE gear than crafted - it's fine by me.

In a working in game economy people are in fact making money by crafting things and selling them. By selling the mats they don't use to people who do use them.

That is how it is intended to be.

But now as the only viable item to buy is the ibis sword which requires a raid to craft, they can charge that kind of money for it.

The entire in game economy now hinges on that one thing.
That is tulip economy and it's about bloody time it crashed.

Old 29th November 2012, 10:58
#32 Misiuggah

Originally Posted by Scythie View Post
In a working in game economy people are in fact making money by crafting things and selling them. By selling the mats they don't use to people who do use them.

I don't have any mats to sell because you don't get any from raiding (money included). Shards don't come from raids

[Kurt2013]

Old 29th November 2012, 11:22
#33 Rathothis

Originally Posted by Misiuggah View Post
I don't have any mats to sell because you don't get any from raiding (money included).

Well, be merry then, since in the future you'll have something to sell

Overall, I see three objections to the revamp. Two of them aren't entirely convincing, and the third is out of our hands:

1* The new system will encourage ninja-looting in PUG raids. True, but manageable (even if it requires some effort from PUG leaders). Also, the two main drivers of PUG raids currently are (i) shards, and (ii) for quite some people, there's just not that much to do in game out of main raid time. The crafting revamp has the potential to address both of these.

2* Crafted gear shouldn't be more powerful than gear from endgame raids. I don't see an issue with that unless you need crafted gear for future content. Which basically means that the advantage in item value which the best crafted gear may have compared to T4 will need to be small. We don't know about that yet, but I hope FC will not come up with another Ibis (compared to T2 which then was the best raid gear).

3* Where do I get the gold? Supply and demand, baby. Lack of demand should drive prices down. There's one real question here though: Does AoC still have a sufficient population to support a complex crafting system? I suppose time will tell...

Old 29th November 2012, 11:51
#34 Bonera

on the whole all looks good...
BUT as i asked the question about the exploit at the end of their stream,they have no way round it, so to easily obtain pvp rewards is not farming rocks anymore,its farming ALTS!!!!!

Old 29th November 2012, 12:12
#35 Slith

Originally Posted by Bonera View Post
on the whole all looks good...
BUT as i asked the question about the exploit at the end of their stream,they have no way round it, so to easily obtain pvp rewards is not farming rocks anymore,its farming ALTS!!!!!

Sil said on stream that there will be diminish returns when farming same personl and they are ready to make those "severe" if needed.

Old 29th November 2012, 13:02
#38 Jovana

Originally Posted by Chaoskult View Post
please, ignore what ever Alan says. he don't understand the game properly.

The thing that Alan doesn't agree with your point of view doesn't mean that he yet again doesn't understand the game. He is playing this game for a long,long time and he sure as hell understands it, he just has different opinion then you or me for example. Example of this is that i am for raid nerfs such as t3 when new raids come and as it becomes obsolete while Alan is for raids to stay same difficulty lvl like till the end of time

Back on topic:
1) Everyone have the right to express themselves
2) His or for that matter anyone else opinion on the game has same weight
3)Be nice to your fellow gamers -.-

I sure hope FC will solve alt farming exploit..... :/ Else everyone will run full epiczzz crafted items day 1 .