[Ultimeholy]

Hi, I made this review in hope that the developers may understand the problems with the PVP system.

My main problem is that we hit level 80 too fast and all we can do is raid or just PVP. The PVP is just turning into a mindless slaughter without any meaning and we can just kill without thinking; murderer or not. The limited small instanced world also didn’t help the system at all.

The murder system has problems because people can run a lowbie in their high level group to randomly run them into an area of effect (AOE) to turn us into murderers while splitting our group rezzing in half. On top of this, there is also a bug where free prey will give you a murder point upon their death.

The murder system is also not affective as we can just kill lowbies up to around 850 murder points and wipe the slate clean 1-2 days later. I did this by camping lowebies and asking them for gold to let them EXP. In the end you do something bad like killing lowbies to be a murderer but it’s actually more of a benefit than any type of punishment. You don’t lose anything when you become a murderer and it can actually be good having your own private resurrection pad, and potions. You can also travel in main cities freely without fees as you can go around it with stealth and other sneaky paths into town. Then on top of this, dying as a murderer is not even as bad.

Tell me, how can this be PvP? This is mindless killing and dying without having fear of harsh consequences with a worthless PVP system that ultimately doesn’t do anything. The PVP Level and gear are also imbalancing the game more while separating PVE and PVP when they should go along together.

What I suggest is using a PVP system similar to Lineage 2 because it’s truly nice. It allows protection for everyone that don’t want to PVP while not killing it with not only just lowbies but you still can kill these that dont want to pvp with risk. I’ll explain this system fast. In Lineage 2, and believe me a similar thing will make sense for AoC.

Player A attacks Player B (both have white names). Player A name will now turn purple because he is PVP flagged. If player fight back, he also turn purple ( flagged). If 1 kill the other then the flags will wear off after 45 seconds and the kill will count as a normal PVP kill. If Player A attack player B while his name is still white (meaning player B didn’t attack back) then Player’s A name will turn Red (he’s chaotic now and can be attacked by everyone). Then when other white players attack him they stay white while Player’s A still under the same flag.

Player A will gain a karma point when they kill other players like this (chaotic way) and they can only remove the red flag by dying or grinding the same level mobs. If Player A has enough Karma and more than 5 chaotic kill (PK kill), he can also possibly lose gear while everyone always loses EXP (4%) in PVP.

This system allows some protection from everyone while allowing full PVP for all. This will encourage more trust inside guilds as players would be able to lose items which in return causes guilds and PVP to be more serious.

I believe Funcom should do something similar for World PvP and allow player to reach 99.9% EXP inside their level 80. That way EXP loss and DELEVELING would make sense.

also with a slower leveling ( or by increasing the lvl cap), this will make more intense pvp conflict, and if there is more zone for high leveling with good grinding spot ( instead of only 1 DMC "death master camp") will increase conflict for territory control

that mean, you will be high level enough to do end game raid, but when you have nothing to do, you can always aim for more power, with this slow leveling, so either raid or, try to gain more power, that will ultimately bring pvp for the control of the best grind spots and create a better flow with pvp and pve, bringing them togheter

which is the oposite of the present situation

TY and sorry for bad English!

[Varushka]

Agreed. Murderers should be red in main cities.

[Reimus]

Why all the hate for murderers?

Sooner or later, you'll have to become a murderer, unless you're trying to avoid pvp.

If you want a murderer to lose a piece of armor, than let him have a chance to steal a piece of armor from you, after all, why the hell should he care if he's a criminal already?

And murderer's red in the main cities?, the guards already kill them there. If you want them to be red in the cities, than you better be red to them. Imagine, a level 80 murderer guild in the main cities killing you over and over and over...

[Jabronie]

What is with the increasing use of

pointless spacing and putting one half

of a single thought on one half

of what the screen can handle horizonatally

and no form of sentence structure or thoguht

cohesion from one line break up to the

next

I dont get

it








help?

[Reimus]

Originally Posted by Slovis What is with the increasing use of pointless spacing and putting one half of a single thought on one half of what the screen can handle horizonatally and no form of sentence structure or thoguht cohesion from one line break up to the next I dont get it help?

Famine edited it.

I wonder if Famine can duel in game.

[Famine]

Yeah, I reformatted the post for you being it was freaking out my browser. I also added some of the correct terms for you being it seems English is not your first language here.

Will reply, still reading.

[Famine]

Originally Posted by Reimus Famine edited it. I wonder if Famine can duel in game.

Yeah, I think I'm the only CM who actually will correct poor formatted feedback in order to make it clear for everyone to read and understand. Always helps when peoples first language is not English.

[Famine]

Originally Posted by Ultime My main problem is that we hit level 80 too fast and all we can do is raid or just PVP. The PVP is just turning into a mindless slaughter without any meaning and we can just kill without thinking; murderer or not. The limited small instanced world also didn’t help the system at all. ................

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you took the time to explain your comments on "PvP being useless" from the other thread. I can't express enough how one liners don't tell us enough detail on what you mean. We want the detail as much as possible as long as it's constructive. Just for those who consider constructive to be away of us saying "We only want positive or nothing at all," are incorrect. We encourage both negative and positive constructive posting because we can get a clear understanding on what you're expressing with less ranting/flamewars and so on.

Anyways moving on!

I think everyone agrees that PVP should have meaning. That meaning will be different for everyone and there is no way we can make a system that everyone will love. For example, we can have looting in Age of Conan if we truly wanted it. That does not mean everyone would enjoy the system because looting is still very harsh with a lot of baggage on it. The same goes for not having looting at all too. The impact is also harsh for those who see it as meaning.

Either way, having meaning is key and it's something we can improve on with Conan. The murder system with being a criminal and all the other sorts does add more detail to the system. In adding detail it will in return also add more meaning. We can improve on these systems and I think the feedback above is encouraging for us to tweak it just for that aspect.

Speaking on the suggestions, I think it is very possible that we could increase the risk of being a Murderer in-game. Like for example again, making it possible to loot on extreme cases. Maybe even having other additional negative aspects to make it more challenging for those who choose to be that vile. However, that's not something entirely up to me on my end as I am only the messenger but I will convey this to the system designers as well game director.

On the point of the issues with lowbies, these are things we can look at now. I believe most of the examples have been looked at and will be tweaked accordingly over time. I can't say when or what issues are being considered but we are looking at it closely.

In closing, the systems mentioned in the thread are very important to the game much like every other system we have. The systems are also things we can build on over time and add more depth to the PVP experience overall that most will enjoy.

[Vall]

Just a thought, has it been considered yet of using the free prey buff kinda like the criminal buff. Say a bunch of lowbies attack some one way out of their level range, they should all become freeprey just like how if the high level guy hits them first he becomes a criminal. This is the main flaw i see in the system to be honest while messing around on Cimmeria the past few weeks, theres a system to prevent high levels from ganking the lowbies, but nothing that lets the high level get his/her revenge on a lowbie//group of lowbies

[brickman007]

Originally Posted by Famine Thanks for the feedback! Glad you took the time to explain your comments on "PvP being useless" from the other thread. I can't express enough how one liners don't tell us enough detail on what you mean. We want the detail as much as possible as long as it's constructive. Just for those who consider constructive to be away of us saying "We only want positive or nothing at all," are incorrect. We encourage both negative and positive constructive posting because we can get a clear understanding on what you're expressing with less ranting/flamewars and so on. Anyways moving on! I think everyone agrees that PVP should have meaning. That meaning will be different for everyone and there is no way we can make a system that everyone will love. For example, we can have looting in Age of Conan if we truly wanted it. That does not mean everyone would enjoy the system because looting is still very harsh with a lot of baggage on it. The same goes for not having looting at all too. The impact is also harsh for those who see it as meaning. Either way, having meaning is key and it's something we can improve on with Conan. The murder system with being a criminal and all the other sorts does add more detail to the system. In adding detail it will in return also add more meaning. We can improve on these systems and I think the feedback above is encouraging for us to tweak it just for that aspect. Speaking on the suggestions, I think it is very possible that we could increase the risk of being a Murderer in-game. Like for example again, making it possible to loot on extreme cases. Maybe even having other additional negative aspects to make it more challenging for those who choose to be that vile. However, that's not something entirely up to me on my end as I am only the messenger but I will convey this to the system designers as well game director. On the point of the issues with lowbies, these are things we can look at now. I believe most of the examples have been looked at and will be tweaked accordingly over time. I can't say when or what issues are being considered but we are looking at it closely. In closing, the systems mentioned in the thread are very important to the game much like every other system we have. The systems are also things we can build on over time and add more depth to the PVP experience overall that most will enjoy.

Thank you for your comments sir. Coming from a game or two where PvP had great meaning, not meantioning any names, there were two main factors in play which addressed the OP's concerns: Risk and Reward. That is as simple as it gets, and what AoC lacks. I feel, in my short time here, that AoC is not sure really, the direction it wants to go. It seems as if you want to ride that fine line of a "safe" PvP environment such as the other mainstream games, but protend to be a more mature, riskier, darker MMO. I don't get that feeling.
The wildness of the lore does not permiate the game (and I play on the hardest PvP Server), because at the end of the day there is no risk or reward except a little pride, maybe a BK, but that is sort of a community pool which frankly adds very little to the other sexy lure of Conan, and thats domination.
What is the driving force that makes a guild want to dominate this game, or another guild? What are the accolades, or notoreity, the strife? I just feel you have not hit a stride yet... this game is still to safe.