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Thread: Is avatar viable in PVP?

  1. #1

    Default Is avatar viable in PVP?

    I guess I just need to get honest advice on this class.. If I wanted to go gen/poss I would have gone demo and had better range and nukes. I went hox for battle mage. The ONLY magic i'm specced into is HFB, i'm hybrid but heavily into avatar.

    With any mix of gear+weapon can avatar be viable and good in pvp? No flame lash or chains. just melee combos with hfb mixed in?

  2. #2

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    Why are you avoiding magic? Avatar does not mean "no magic." Melee does not mean "no magic." Flame Lash isn't supposed to be a nuke, and it's not supposed to be in your rotation. It's a situational tool. It's silly to pass it up just because it reminds you of a demo spell.

    Avatar is not "non-viable," but PVP HoXes have a "career" defined by AA and gear, and for an undergeared HoX, Possession has some extra tools to ease the run-and-gun, nuke-and-split style. Once you're geared, and being CCed or focused isn't instant death, Purge and Chains/Tongue aren't as critical, which means it's easier to experiment with Avatar/Poss, the extra stun, more pulsing damage (AoX + Hellstep = ouch), faster Pillars, etc.

    If you want "honest," it sounds like you want a conq playstyle with a demo's results. It's not going to work. HoXes are not demos: they have to work harder and take more risks to AoE a group of players than a demo does. They are also not conqs: they are not going to start the battles and they have to pick their fights. HoXes have a very different role in minis than most classes. HoXes take advantage of opportunities rather than create them. That's why if you're on a team that creates opportunities -- coordinated CC, moving together, healing of the point people, etc. -- you will be a key player (e.g., give a HoX 5-7 seconds to wind up, and nobody lays down that kind of massive AoE). But when everyone is doing their own thing, a new HoX is going to be at the mercy of everyone who knows what they're doing.
    Last edited by Prima; 14th June 2013 at 18:19.
    Current HoX: Sandspice (Set) | Heralds of Xotli: LEVELING GUIDE | AA Guide | Faction Guide | Pekka's Gear List | Tafale's Raid Guide
    Always up for grouping with other HoXes: grinding, quest assistance, new HoXes, etc.

  3. #3

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    I wouldn't say conq playstyle, I want massive damage from melee combos. I feel like after spending 1-2 hours on the forums and watching videos hoxs only spam HFB, chains, tongue and then they have nothing. I was just inquiring if Avatar + strength CR gear would boost melee combos enough.

    And i'm not trying to avoid magic damage, I want to buff the damage that pulses from demon form, hellstep, and HFB. So i'm not trying to avoid magic damage at all. Just going for tongue and chain doesn't interest me. I hope this makes more sense. I also know the hox's role, and they are squishy. Need to pick battles smartly, and never be the first one in the fight..

    Any advice on a good pvp avatar build?

  4. #4

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    It does make sense. I love Avatar and our big, slow, nasty combos. Most of my PVP has been Avatar/Poss, even in the days when it was a truly terrible idea. I personally think magic gear -- or at least Int -- is overrated by the HoX community, probably because our Int-powered abilities happen to require the least amount of positioning and cast time; an expert HoX with a mix of Str/CR and magic will significantly out-parse a HoX that gears like a pure mage. And while HfB might be king, for me personally, it's while dropping PoIFs that I feel like I'm playing ball.

    So I'd love nothing more than to bank all the Int accessories and start shopping for a barb/conq 2H.

    But unfortunately, the pure-combo route got gutted by a bunch of things back in the day:
    • Fire Lance was nerfed and not replaced. FL used to hit like a truck. Unfortunately, you get it so early, it made people's lives hell in lowbie world PVP back in the day (back when there where hundreds of thousand of people leveling on PVP servers ... true story), so it got chopped way down, then again.
    • The nerfed Fire Lance means you're stuck with Hell Strikes -- which is better used in PVP as a down-ranked quick-hit option -- or Pillars of Infernal Flame 2/3, which have a giant animation that makes them very situational.
    • Also, the other end-tier feat in Avatar is useless, especially for PVP. (If Hell on Earth was replaced with the original Fire Lance, now we'd be talking!)
    • Hellfire Breath was made instant. A giant, instant-cast, hard-hitting, no brainer, no risk spell, for a class that has nothing else like it? You simply can't pass it up. But then it requires gearing a totally different way than combos.

    There are some good Avatar builds in the Builds thread so I won't rehash that ground too much. I'd say you have two choices in Avatar PVP though:
    • build entirely for hit-and-run sniping (with Damning Eloquence, possibly Searing Hatred)
    • or for passive/sustained damage with time-outs between fights for cooldowns to tick. (Wrath of Xotli, Phoenix Cloak, Clarity of the Mad)
    Last edited by Prima; 14th June 2013 at 19:47.
    Current HoX: Sandspice (Set) | Heralds of Xotli: LEVELING GUIDE | AA Guide | Faction Guide | Pekka's Gear List | Tafale's Raid Guide
    Always up for grouping with other HoXes: grinding, quest assistance, new HoXes, etc.

  5. #5

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    Biggest advantage of poss/gen is the access to the morphstun and Clarity of the Mad while still being able to reach purge. Its just way to important for a hox to stay mobile. So as odd as it sounds feating in our "caster"-tree gives us more survivability.
    They could place a purge-like anti-cc deep in the Avatar tree or move the/give a morphstun to avatar (then again the last option would weaken possession significantly), that would solve a lot of problems.

  6. #6

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    I came up with 2 builds I will test on open world pvp and a few minis in the next few days. I'll report back my success..

    I really wish they didn't move the hox revamp back to 2014

  7. #7

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    HoX revamp its a legend !
    TYFON - HoX pvp 10
    MALZAHAR - PoM pvp 7

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manczurow View Post
    HoX revamp its a legend !
    It is like comming of Messiah you know it will come but you can not be sure which century it will happen

    Quote Originally Posted by Apexpredator View Post
    II really wish they didn't move the hox revamp back to 2014
    No HoX is da best class just because of he is like he is right now. If the pleasure playing it will not be as awesome no one will bother with UP class. Possesion/General simply the best fun which we have in whole game
    Xuhotl - arcimage of the city of Xuthal in service of great army Futilez - HoX PvP lvl 10
    Bordhi - Khitai legionary - DT PvP lvl 7
    Bahary - vampire and your nightmare - Lotus Sin PvP lvl 7
    Shiwan - the last of Corrags - retired noob Barb PvP lvl 8

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Apexpredator View Post
    I came up with 2 builds I will test on open world pvp and a few minis in the next few days. I'll report back my success..
    The build i used on my hox : http://goo.gl/DHRlf
    Mostly wearing Wolves gear and PvP gear (PvP 5)
    Mana drain is great especially since the class you'll come to fear the most are mana users (PoM / Necro). But you'll enjoy it against DT's and BS a lot aswell.

    It's just slightly harder to get kills. In poss/gen spec CoA helps a lot to get them.
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vehl View Post
    The build i used on my hox : http://goo.gl/DHRlf
    Mostly wearing Wolves gear and PvP gear (PvP 5)
    Mana drain is great especially since the class you'll come to fear the most are mana users (PoM / Necro). But you'll enjoy it against DT's and BS a lot aswell.

    It's just slightly harder to get kills. In poss/gen spec CoA helps a lot to get them.
    imo if you put 8 points in the mana drain put 2 in demonic fortitude for imba sprint times(though i dont know what energy gain is since the sprint revamp)

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