PvP Minigames nowadays ...

[AngryBarb]

Well Wulf. no matter what happens, we can always sing!

[Kurt2013]

You cant eliminate PUG minis because you risk eliminating the casual PvPer, the newcomer (we still have those?!) and the low level/undergeared player. What we do need is a revamp of the current tournment mode so it isnt such a hassle to get players to sign up. For example, allowing you to sing up with 2-3 friends in tournment mode as well as solo players. This would, in theory, filter the quality of the match since only higher lvl/experienced/hardcore players would sing up for the tournment. The downside would,be creating a bigger division of the current playerbase, splitting even more the aleready diminishing numbers accross mini-games. This way we would have the current PuG system and an alternate Pre-made system that would allow a full blown 6man team as well as smaller groups with 2-3 friends. Sadly its too far down the road and the current pvp numbers simply dont justify the ammount of time and resource allocation. This could have boosted the PvP side a great deal along with the the cross server technology. Solution for tbe current estate of PvP? AoC 2.

I find the argument of splitting the playerbase a bit overrated. If the population is already divided in people who can endure current pvp and minis and those left or given up...it is not really a risk. Personally i see more gain than harm in fixing the tournament mode.

[Bibik]

One thing about minis in this game that doesn't make sense to me, is why the hell can a player even leave before the mini is finished???

FC should remove that option so the statpadding twats would be forced to fight (or be farmed if afk). That would also give even more incentive to try and win.

Forcing people doesn't work as an incentive. If people feels forced they'll won't sign at all or run&hide until mini ends.
Incentive is giving rewards for fighting i.e scalling pvp xp or even tokens for the amount of points (JS) flags capped (HV, LT, BR) Total kills done (TT). Even if you lose by a little margin, you'll get something according to the effort you made to win despite the odds. When i lose a 40 min JS by 10 points (meaning it's was a close fight so a very good mini), i don't understand why loosing side gets 1 token and 100xp or even nothing & 40xp if quest is on cd. Some xp rewards are ridiculous when quest is on cd...
Or even better (but utopic) is giving rewards/stats windows for positive teamplay actions like healing, flag tentative, assists to kill and so on...

And even with that i doubt it won't change anything to the general trend of ego-pvp as long as personnal k/d is still displayed both in the end-mini window & personal stats windows. How can you expect teamplay (WE) when personnal stats (I) are displayed everywhere.

[Jerohn]

Personal stats should never be removed. It is a must or there will be a hordes of brainless and skillless idiots who just run&die the whole minigame. Now when they act like that they see a k/d in the end and realize they playing bad and should learn to play and try to be better. If there will be no k/d ppl will stop learning how to be better because it will change nothing for them personally.

[Bibik]

Personal stats should never be removed. It is a must or there will be a hordes of brainless and skillless idiots who just run&die the whole minigame. Now when they act like that they see a k/d in the end and realize they playing bad and should learn to play and try to be better. If there will be no k/d ppl will stop learning how to be better because it will change nothing for them personally.

Players don't do that, they just run, leave and hide. Or SW on pad for necros. They also focus only low-geared players or wait to have favorable situation to come back and try to steal a kill. Personnal stats feed selfish gameplay over the rest. It was always like that and k/d never pushed people to be more skilled. Never.

[Hyall]

positive k/d != game win

[Jerohn]

Players don't do that, they just run, leave and hide. Or SW on pad for necros. They also focus only low-geared players or wait to have favorable situation to come back and try to steal a kill. Personnal stats feed selfish gameplay over the rest. It was always like that and k/d never pushed people to be more skilled. Never.

I disagree with you. I play on PvP servers since release and situation was like i said. When ppl are farmed they feel they are noobs and trying to be better. If there will be no k/d it will be a brainless rush fest of hamsters who dont know how to play minigames and team pvp at all.

[Bibik]

I know games were k/d is not displayed and there isn't things like you described. But maybe cause death have more penality/consequence.
Plus if you're skilled & teamplay is decent, you can easily handle bad assaults so even the baddest player can quickly see they are useless, unless team start to organize itself (better teamplay) and/or raise up their skill.

However, game and community is not prepared for such things, so things won't change in AoC pugs minis and threads like this will always appears over and over.

[Mathieulombardi]

Somewhat of a personal solution: People have no hope , they believe in the upcomming defeat a lot more than the possibility of a tiresome victory. Prove them wrong , give them motivation be polite , be efficient , be better and every minigroup will follow you to burning hell despite the odds being against you. It's all about good karma .

Start with a "ffs noobs again , were doomed" statement your ingroup experience and pretty soon you'll end up in a pool of your own blood.

What people need is hope , explain to them that you can provide victory-elements. Take the flag with your demo/hox/tos/whatever and die like a man , the brute conq will get emotionall and follow your paradigm right when your clothbody drops down dead.\\o//

Give hope to the noobs , either by nature (your very good and geared and in general a usefull adition to grp) or by position (create a nice ingroup atmosphere , motivate ppl , be humble enough to ask certain tards to participate for real stead of ruining the game)


There's only one road to victory : Be a better man -> Become a better player -> Become invincible

Dont get me wrong , you can be the most iritating kind of man/woman and be a great player , but then again , no credit will follow your kills , cause none will care for kills that didnt affect him. While a 18kills demo will get praised in the eyes of the world if he achieved this with a skull on his back , a 32 kills assasin might aswell end up ingored by everybody , given he stealth-fraged and ran back into shadows on repeat.

And pls , remind me , why Ezekiel from NightWatch almost never lost a mini? Cause he got the gun and he got the manners. More Ezekiels pls.

That only works if you have players with some sort of map awareness. For example,

http://i.imgur.com/VZLlbAQ.jpg

People need to pay attention that. Otherwise no matter how good you or your teammates are in terms of personal skills, if you're not coordinated in terms of positioning, you're not coming back to win a game.

Plus let's be honest, the whole point of this threads is to discuss the problem with balance and poor minigame situation. When the game starts 6v4 (or 5) and against a team of pvp 0-4s with no gear and no brain, there's nothing you can really do no matter how polite and positive you are.

The fundamentals need to be fixed, asap.

I disagree with you. I play on PvP servers since release and situation was like i said. When ppl are farmed they feel they are noobs and trying to be better. If there will be no k/d it will be a brainless rush fest of hamsters who dont know how to play minigames and team pvp at all.

If you give them actual lvl up rewards for utility, and other objective based rewards, then KDR wouldn't matter as much. Those hamsters would stop being hamsters and focus on team play, team rewards and team based wins.

Look at every single competitive pvp game in esports today, all of them, supporting and understanding the game are admired and much more appreciated.

[ieronymous]

I fight when there is an even remote chance of win, and I don't mind dieing a bit more than I could to save the victory.

But when minigames is plain impossible (0:2 on flags, our team 1 kill / enemy team 20 kills; something like that) I say "let them win" aswell.
It's pointless to offer free kills to the other group when there is no chance to win (well there are exceptions to this aswell, with the right players in group even extremely unbalanced groups can be very fun).

It's part of the situational awarness that it's one of the most important "skill" in minigames, whatever class you play.

Something I truly hate: 5 people in my group fight a tank who is pushing behind a corner leaving me alone to jump on rangers / demos / necros which otherwise would nuke them down in few seconds.
Again it's situational awarness, after few deaths as soon as you realize that your group is like that well.. good luck and have fun.
I love challenge, but when you have group, fighting 1 vs 5 is no fun.

Anyway recent patch to me made minigames much more fun, since I see many more players really trying to win.
So to me current status of minigames is a bit better.

I wish Funcom could just tune a few things, for example:

- groups class distribution in JS. Healers should be equally distributed among the 2 groups (happen to see 3 healers in one group and 0 in the other)

- minigames abandoned: you fall under map and can't die, so you are forced to relog and even if you reenter game get +1 abandoned.

- increase PvP AA we get from minigames, to help new players. For example add 1 prowess point to each minigame quest reward

Who said that healers can guarantee victory?A healer in order to help(cc,heal,dps)that's the right rotation,he must be alive first..( I think) ..I ve been in countless minis when they all target the healer,he doesn't even have time to do a combo,imagine urself healer which u are,take fire from 4-5 people instantenously,and ccs too..and that not only once...like 7-8 times...Then what u do?2 scenarios...u stay at ress...or u leave mini...By the way ur propositions are interesting.Hope funcom do something about it..!!!