Roleplaying & People's Comfort Zones

[Ming-Ming]

Before I broach this topic, I want to set forth my experiences in roleplaying. I've been roleplaying in various forms of tabletop, LARP, and online RP for about 30 years. I've been both player and GM, and I've been called upon to mediate and make some strange judgement calls over the years. But I have never seen a situation quite so presumptive as I have encountered recently.

Roleplaying is a social activity. People engage in it because it's a fun form of 'let's pretend' generally with a loose form of rules and mechanics attached to it. While there is risk and conflict involved in roleplaying characters in various scenarios, I've rarely seen anyone claim that roleplaying should be an endeavor where someone should be put into a situation where they are forced to be uncomfortable Out-Of-Character; or if so placed, that they do not have the right to excuse and remove themselves from the discomforting scene.

I've recently encountered situations involving roleplayers in AoC who weren't necessarily doing anything wrong in their RP, but in the unfolding of their scenes, events strayed beyond that which I was personally comfortable with. I quickly excused myself as politely as I could, and removed myself from the scene. I thought that would be it, only to be surprised by accusations of being a spoilsport by leaving, and that 'real roleplaying is opening up your horizons' and that a roleplayer should just 'sit, interact, and listen' even if they are uncomfortable with a given scene.

I want to set the record straight. Your fellow players are not living props so that you can self-aggrandize. Roleplaying is two-way, and the freedom to roleplay ends where someone else's boundaries begins. Likewise those other players don't have the right to tell you what you are doing is wrong or to lecture you on what you ought to be doing. Everyone's free to RP whatever they are comfortable with. But insisting that someone sit through something that takes them past their boundaries and comfort zones, is not roleplaying- it's grandstanding in the most self-centered manner possible.

I lead a social and roleplaying guild. I encourage my members to roleplay and to do their best to include others. But I also remind them that roleplaying is not about the ego. It's a group activity and being inclusive does not mean holding someone hostage to bad rp, tasteless rp, or even just rp that doesn't fit someone's preferences. If someone doesn't like what is going on, don't take it personally if they leave. If their tastes don't match yours, that's part of the variety of human experiences. Don't take someone to task for 'not being like you'.

Be polite, be kind, be inclusive, and for goodness's sake, don't take rejection of one scene as rejection of yourself as a person or any other possible interactions. It's not a binary experience after all.

But above all, have fun and remember others are out there to have fun as well.

[Lleilwin]

+1 /10 chars

[Reinauer]

May I direct you to the correct area ~ [ RolePlayers Here ]

... enjoy.

[Ming-Ming]

May I direct you to the correct area ~ [ RolePlayers Here ]

... enjoy.

And I quote the subforum header you directed me to:

Role Playing
Roleplaying forum -- posting on this forum should be done 'in character'

[Anzu]

May I direct you to the correct area ~ [ RolePlayers Here ]

... enjoy.

May I suggest you to leave moderation work to moderators?

[Civilix]

If you have been roleplaying for 30 years you must know there are plenty of subgroups of roleplayers, and many of those groups are better because they are not inclusive.

If you are not comfortable with a scene you remove yourself in character, as i understood you did, why you would engage in OOC conversations after that i do not understand.

Unless you are with a group of feminazi social justice warriors the freedom to roleplay does not end where someone else's boundaries begins, everyone is free to explore the role they are playing in the way they find interesting.

That is the reason we have all the subgroups, and that is why you should play with the people that agree on the same limits as you do.

If the group you are playing with have too gray themes and include stories or characters you do not like, it is you that need to find another group and stop trying to change the people that enjoy the content you are uncomfortable with.

As long as people are not godmoding there are no issues unless you make it an issue.

"When in rome..."

[Ming-Ming]

(snip)

If you are not comfortable with a scene you remove yourself in character, as i understood you did, why you would engage in OOC conversations after that i do not understand. ...(snip)... the freedom to roleplay does not end where someone else's boundaries begins, everyone is free to explore the role they are playing in the way they find interesting. ...(snip)... If the group you are playing with have too gray themes and include stories or characters you do not like, it is you that need to find another group and stop trying to change the people that enjoy the content you are uncomfortable with.

I don't think you understand what I wrote, or English must not be your primary language because I think I was perfectly clear.

I left a scene, and was messaged with some negative Tells afterwards.

The freedom to roleplay how you wish ends when someone doesn't wish to be a part of that roleplay. They can leave whenever they want, and you don't have the right to harass them or pressure them into staying or coming back for your own gratification. It's even in the TOS as chat harassment is a reportable and bannable offense.

At no point did I try to change the way anyone roleplayed. I left a scene because I did not want to engage any further. I did not lecture the remaining players, message them, or make any demands of them. I did not in fact, knowingly initiate any further contact with them at all.

You seem to have an axe to grind with the fact I emphasized the freedom to refrain from RP that disagrees with people's comfort level. Perhaps it's a language thing, perhaps it's a cultural thing. Regardless, I respectfully disagree with your responses and have rebutted them above as politely as I could.

If you disagree, please do not clutter my thread with your meanderings, but start your own thread instead.

[Civilix]

I do disagree with some of what you say, and since this is a forum i will take the opportunity to speak out.

First of all i see no other reason for you to post this to the forums other than you wanting to shine a light on something you see as a problem, if not that what is the point of this thread?

But lets narrow it down to what you wanted to talk about.

Negative tells is something you can get no matter what you do, the normal thing is to ignore it.

If you get harassed(something that you point out is against the TOS) you report it to a GM and move on, the GM will then handle the problem. To not report it and go to the forums to complain is the wrong thing to do in case of harassment.

For someone to pressure you into "staying or coming back" is just not possible in the game, there are no mechanics in game that lets them do that. If they do it outside the game i am sure most countries have laws against that.

I have nothing against the "freedom to refrain from RP", in fact most of the people on my friends list do enjoy this freedom every time they log on.

What i do have a problem with is
A) people that complain with no reason
B) people that want to change what others enjoy

English is indeed not my primary language, not my secondary either, but i think i understand it well enough to understand what you wanted with the tread.

[Amabala]

What i do have a problem with is
A) people that complain with no reason
B) people that want to change what others enjoy

Then you shouldn't have a problem as Ming-Ming did neither of those things.

Ming-Ming was articulating some values and precepts concerning role playing using a recent RP experience as the impetus for posting those values and precepts. Having a clear statement of values posted here on the forums is helpful to any player of AoC - whether a long-time role player, someone new to RP or someone who only experiences RP when they happen upon a group engaged in a scene. There is the reason for this thread.

Clearly, Ming-Ming was not 'complaining' about the experience, merely stating this experience wasn't the way in which M-M enjoyed RP - a needed bit of information to explain why M-M was posting. There was no complaining.

The entire post was about people being fair-minded concerning others' acceptance/rejection of their role-playing style or scenario. No where does M-M state that the others should have changed their RP style to suit M-M. Ming-Ming merely stated that to be sent tells about how to role play upon leaving a scene wasn't appropriate. Seems to me, anyone who breaks character mid-scene could use some guidance in this regard.

[Civilix]

Then you shouldn't have a problem as Ming-Ming did neither of those things.

There i have to disagree.

Ming-Ming was articulating some values and precepts concerning role playing using a recent RP experience as the impetus for posting those values and precepts. Having a clear statement of values posted here on the forums is helpful to any player of AoC - whether a long-time role player, someone new to RP or someone who only experiences RP when they happen upon a group engaged in a scene. There is the reason for this thread.

So she did make a clear statment of values we should all follow?

So if my role playing group do not agree on these values that sort of have to mean she wants us to change, this is posted to the whole community not just her circle of friends.

In her last post here she also was quite vocal about the tells/harassment was the topic of the discussion.

Clearly, Ming-Ming was not 'complaining' about the experience, merely stating this experience wasn't the way in which M-M enjoyed RP - a needed bit of information to explain why M-M was posting. There was no complaining.

I think you agree with me here?
To state that one does not enjoy something sort of is the same as complaining, remember complaining is not a negative word in itself.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.

The entire post was about people being fair-minded concerning others' acceptance/rejection of their role-playing style or scenario. No where does M-M state that the others should have changed their RP style to suit M-M. Ming-Ming merely stated that to be sent tells about how to role play upon leaving a scene wasn't appropriate. Seems to me, anyone who breaks character mid-scene could use some guidance in this regard.

Sending abusive or harassing tells is bad, everyone agrees on that, but that has nothing to do with the roleplayer community. To suggest some "values that will fix the problem" is the wrong thing to do, this problem is fixed by reporting the offenders and then move on.

Something that leaves me back at what you quoted, it seems like she want to implement values that challenge our freedom to roleplay the way we enjoy. And if it is just about the tells the topic is misleading and the post itself sets a really bad example for all of the readers.