fixing PvP crowd control imbalances

[SlightlyMad]

This is a really childish response. If you want o discuss, state your point, don't call people names.

Lets look at the AAs for a minute shall we? I see in the general AAs that any class can take the following that every player has taken: Fire ward, Electrical ward, Holy ward, Unholy ward, and Frost ward. When these are taken they are passive and give 450 protection towards any magic. I don't know a single player who doesn't have these.

Now, if we look at the others, lets try to find one that helps magic against melee. Empowered momentum? Nope and this is more a melee AA IMO. Immesurable Empowerment? Nope, does nothing toward protection. Field of war? Nope. Quick Steps? Nope, no protection here. And if you think this helps protect since one can run away, like I stated earlier, this is a CC thread, and most CCs prohibit movement. Precise Striked? Nope. Then we have resistances to CCs, no protection there.Expanded Sidestep? Nope, no protection there either.

Ok, lets look at the center feats. Here is an interesting one - Chormatic Warding, another feat that melee can use to protect against magic. Fortifying Empowerment? No protection here, and in fact I don't know anyone who uses this. Another 500 health when any melee toon can white hit a magic toon for that. And finally Elusive Nature? No protection there from melee.

Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote or are just emo over the topic. There are 6 general AAs that have one goal, offer increased protection against magic. You can see this when you look at your skills tab in pvp combat and see the numbers increase. It offers no help against melee in any way. At the same time, the other feats offer help for both magic and melee. Therefore they would be a wash. Whats the point of the health if it helps melee as well as magic, it evens the playing field. What we need to see is a melee protection only feat.

Again a clueless response.

PvE side of this, yeah these perks helping tanks, helping other players bit lesser. But we're talking about pvp. Just gonna ask 3 question;

Why do you think pvp gear has more(much more for some classes) protection then pve gear?

Do you think it's unbalanced, dealing magic damage vs mitigating physical attacks in pvp?

Which is easier in pvp? Casting spells at your target or trying to hit it with combos?

One last question: Ranged players or melees, which of these would loose more by wearing PvE armor which dont posses any protection?

[Suctum]

Since most combat rating is non-generic, magic type resist does play a factor so raising your magic resists is viable to surviving some melee attacks...

But also Corp's point about armor boosts being unavailable to some classes (only through general tree and slightly effective) is valid.

You can spin numbers anyway you want, but a soldier in Frenzy with enough AA and gear still has positive invulns for getting a 50% boost to weapon damage and 50% boost to magic damage. Even fully debuffing a soldier I find hardly any increase to being able to solo burn them since even doing 1-2K+ a cast you have typically 14K hit points to go through, not too mention bubbles, cc's and cc breaks. A soldier can swat a clothie in a single KB, CW/DP/WW, and add 1 more quick combo, which can all happen in about 10 seconds more or less.

In that same time you might only get off a few casts and do only about 5-7K to them, which is only half health at best. It takes 2-3+ people to burn a full geared soldier down to make them run off before he can steal a quick kill, bubble, and sprint off to the heals and come right back in 10 seconds and do it again, or run off to no heals and be back in 15.

I'm not saying all people who play soldiers can be such a huge threat, but once decently geared it doesn't take much to start rolling cloth and light armor and have pretty much minimal risk doing it.

As the OP, all classes need CC's, but atm soldiers are stupidly unbalanced as in terms of DPS and surviability once geared. Anyone who plays knows what time it is when you log in for minis 4 seperate times through out the day and see 5-7 tanks each time. lol

[Suctum]

Again a clueless response.

PvE side of this, yeah these perks helping tanks, helping other players bit lesser. But we're talking about pvp. Just gonna ask 3 question;

Why do you think pvp gear has more(much more for some classes) protection then pve gear?

Do you think it's unbalanced, dealing magic damage vs mitigating physical attacks in pvp?

Which is easier in pvp? Casting spells at your target or trying to hit it with combos?

One last question: Ranged players or melees, which of these would loose more by wearing PvE armor which dont posses any protection?

Answers:

1. Because combat rating that's non-generic takes your magical resists into account when mitigating some damage. Also, Funcom never increased the original amount of protection from the PvP gear once they did away with heroics and pretty much left it a stagnated stat. They increased the amount of all the other stats dramaticly but left protection alone. They then added AA so you could get almost the same amount of protection from AA with fully feated wards and CW, so you don't really need to stack PvP armor as much, unless you want to double stack it, which actually helps more than what people think. Ask people playing HoX what set the prefer...

2. Where they lost the balance was all gear is created the same, a tank weairing tiger's gear does nearly as much as a Barb wearing light tiger's gear. They juiced up stats but made them equal to everyone, not class. Funcom's idea of every class being a dps class does not work when all classes are not created equal...so stats should not be equal. Tank gear by it's design should be regulated to tanking first, dps second, it should not be a mirror image of barb gear with higher constitution and armor...that does not make any sense...

3. It's the same. There are no more 5 and 6 combo steps and hit boxes for Polearm and 2handers are huge, albeit it I will say 1 hand and daggers are still pretty small. Even still, it's pretty easy to land most combos being only 1 or 2 steps, with only a few 3 steppers. The fact you can wind up on other players and run a train on combo hits and move while doing it is a huge advantage against rage and not having to target people. The fact casters have ranged CC's and can los charges and dodge combos is a huge advantage to them. The argument goes both ways, and in my opinion melee and caster are equally as hard and as easy per the person playing it.

4. Well everyone loses out if you have no protection, but obviously the people with fewer hit points (Casters, Sins, Barbs, Preists) will lose out more just by having less hit points. Tanks with the highest health obivously do much better even with the negative effects of Frenzy...

[Baasura]

I do agree with you guys that soldiers are really to strong at the moment. With the amount of protection, bubbles, life leaches... they are extremely hard to kill and can dish some serious dps. And for sure they need to be toned down.
But seriously complaining that there is no some physical dmg resistance aa is just silly. Casters are now at the top of the food chain, and those good ones with good movements and enough intelligence to use cc properly can avoid or run away from mele and melt them from distance.
Soldiers after all have only 1 anti cc and can be cced and run if needed. Ye i know guards resist them to much...
And please dont start about long reach of 2he or polearms, it can be avoided, caster spells however cant. Also there is to much instant casts, long lasting dots, aoe....
Casters are already easy to play and even bad player can kill with them, give them to good players and they destroy.
Buffing them in any way would just create bigger imbalance than there is now

[kalston]

Ye casters (or rogues and healers for that matter) are strong in the right hands, on the other hand soldiers tend to be strong in any hand (though the bad ones aren't going to get tons of kills) and no matter what they are ridiculously forgiving classes. Making a mistake on any other class has a much bigger impact than on a soldier.

Overall class balance is probably better than it ever was in AoC though.

[Chaman-bourru]

As a side not on how to nerf soldiers, like it has already been said on the old forums, increasing the cooldown on stances would be a smart and really meaning full start. Something like 8 seconds instead of the current 4. It wouldn't change a thing in PvE, but would be a huge diffrence in PvP.

[Baasura]

As a side not on how to nerf soldiers, like it has already been said on the old forums, increasing the cooldown on stances would be a smart and really meaning full start. Something like 8 seconds instead of the current 4. It wouldn't change a thing in PvE, but would be a huge diffrence in PvP.

Not bad ide, also DT should not be able to deal that much dmg in def stance. Something should be done with vom and defensive stance which would negate this huge gain you get now.

[Kurt2013]

For DTs you could just scale down the magic damage like the physical dps in defensive stance -> less dps in defensive stance

But if you do that, the same should apply to other soldiers abilities not scaled down. And of course increase the magic damage in return, when in frenzy stance.

[Ieronon]

For DTs you could just scale down the magic damage like the physical dps in defensive stance -> less dps in defensive stance

But if you do that, the same should apply to other soldiers abilities not scaled down. And of course increase the magic damage in return, when in frenzy stance.

hmmm the damage debuff in defensive stance applies to every source of damage, both weapon and spell based.

[Kurt2013]

hmmm the damage debuff in defensive stance applies to every source of damage, both weapon and spell based.

I remember a similar argument in the old forums after which i did some testing, so i am pretty sure it does not apply. At least the damage shown under "magic" tap is unaffected by stance, but the "dps" under "combat" gets reduced (as well as other factors get adjusted visibly there, but not magic damage). I think at least in 2011 the procs dependand on magic damage were the same on a straw man, independant on stance, but i can gladly do the testing again