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Thread: Demonologist Build Monotony

  1. #1

    Default Demonologist Build Monotony

    Currently building a Demonologist is kind of boring because you really don't have a lot of choice with how you build your character if you want to be effective.

    Both PvP and PvE builds benefit the most from having a split between the two main trees, with around 30 points in Conflagration and the rest in Havoc.

    The demo is a very effective class by all accounts, but the fact that it's so one dimensional in what makes a good build also makes it a pretty boring class to customize.

    The reason why there is really no good reason to specialize your build with a demo is twofold:

    For one, the top tier feats in both trees are simply not as powerful as the lower tier feats. When you get to the high end of the feat trees you don't find anything there that you can actually use all the time that brings a specialist in one tree up to par with someone who dabbles in both.

    Secondly, the general tree for Mages is not particularly powerful when compared to what you get out of investing 30 points into the bottom of the class trees. You need to get to the Third and Fourth tier of the general tree to even start seeing feats that are really worth the effort, and there is nothing that significantly buffs your spells.

    One of the main reasons why things play out this way right now is that Shock and Hellfire Stream as well as Shockblast and Inferno of Ahmer are both at their best when used together. Since those spells pretty much always have to go together to fill their role in the best way, be it mobile damage or massive AoE you simply can't get around having to max out both spells for the best results. Neither the Havoc nor the Conflagration tree offers anything at the high end of it that curbs that dependency on the other tree, and as a result heavily specializing in either tree simply isn't as fruitful as spreading yourself between them to get the most oomph out of the spells in both that always go together.


    I think this class would be a lot more fun if going all the way in either tree actually allowed you to make a good character. The top tier feats need to be more worthwhile, and most importantly the top of the tree should contain powerful feats that allow you to not be dependent on the other tree anymore for a major chunk of your damage output, and thereby always bias the class toward being a hybrid build.
    Last edited by Sagroth; 5th March 2013 at 15:43.

  2. #2

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    IoA lost it's allure when the damage was significantly lowered. Now it's only really good when combined with black ashes for the aoe debuff. That and you can apply incinerate to a group which allows for aoe KB as well as counteracting HP Pots. I haven't checked in a while, but it also used to apply blistering wounds (healing received debuff).

    Shock and HFS are the staple of a demo. 2 insta casts that debuff and hit hard. The demo used to be about raining down AOE (feated shockblast hitting 12 people for 3k a hit was yummy) but over the years it has evolved into more of a single target dps / debuff monster.

    The synergy you are looking for doesn't and won't exist with this class in the current state of the game. If you modify it greatly, you will risk making demos gods again like they were in 1.05.

    Nymphet said it best... Demo is a POS filled with a ton of broken and useless feats that somehow just manages to work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    You either like the game or you don't. If you are hanging around because you feel like I am stringing you along with false promises, don't.

  3. #3

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    Nothing is wrong with the demo. Any changes would make the class more faceroll than it already is.

    And Xenic is right, AoE used to be the way to go, but current days it's much faster and more effecient to burn people one at a time.

    AoE still has it's place, but with the sprint mechanic people chase you all over the place. Not really much chance to bomb unless your totally ignored or already camping the other team. Still great for sieges.

  4. #4

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    The thing about both Inferno of Ahmer and Shockblast is, since they come with a 3 second cast time and a 3 second cooldown, if you want to really spam AoE you need both. There are no feats anywhere in either tree that give you something that breaks that interdependency.

    Even if neither spell had a cooldown, since Shockblast does more raw damage and the only reason to cast IoA is the big debuff you'd still want to alternate between them, or maybe do a 2 Shockblasts, 1 IoA mix. You just never get to a point where you'd be significantly better at anything using only one tree over both.


    I don't think demonologists would be gods if spells like Impish Horde or Gate of Hell were worth a damn. Going high Havoc is worth it for stuff like Possession currently, but there really isn't much in Conflag that's really great. Let them Burn is kind of awesome, but with its big cooldown it's not really gameplay defining. Impish Horde and Gate of Hell don't seem really worth the while.




    Also the whole attitude of "The class is powerful, therefore nothing is wrong and nothing can be changed" is just incredibly ignorant. Classes that leave you no meaningful customization options are broken, even if their single monolithic alpha build works well. Good class design isn't a question of how well you fare compared to other classes, it's a question of how well you fare compared to other games.
    Last edited by Sagroth; 5th March 2013 at 16:03.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    people chase you all over the place. Not really much chance to bomb unless your totally ignored or already camping the other team.
    I spent 90% of my AOC life (while on my demo) running from one form of OP soldier or another... first it was Guards (F U Spaartan haha), then DT's, now it's baddies like Nozcoff.......

    OH in between there was the Sin City epidemic and the Fly By Wire Heat Seeking Arrows of the 2 shot rangers.

    Who has time to stand still? LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    You either like the game or you don't. If you are hanging around because you feel like I am stringing you along with false promises, don't.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagroth View Post
    The thing about both Inferno of Ahmer and Shockblast is, since they come with a 3 second cast time and a 3 second cooldown, if you want to really spam AoE you need both. There are no feats anywhere in either tree that give you something that breaks that interdependency.

    Even if neither spell had a cooldown, since Shockblast does more raw damage and the only reason to cast IoA is the big debuff you'd still want to alternate between them, or maybe do a 2 Shockblasts, 1 IoA mix. You just never get to a point where you'd be significantly better at anything using only one tree over both.


    I don't think demonologists would be gods if spells like Impish Horde or Gate of Hell were worth a damn. Going high Havoc is worth it for stuff like Possession currently, but there really isn't much in Conflag that's really great. Let them Burn is kind of awesome, but with its big cooldown it's not really gameplay defining. Impish Horde and Gate of Hell don't seem really worth the while.




    Also the whole attitude of "The class is powerful, therefore nothing is wrong and nothing can be changed" is just incredibly ignorant. Classes that leave you no meaningful customization options are broken, even if their single monolithic alpha build works well. Good class design isn't a question of how well you fare compared to other classes, it's a question of how well you fare compared to other games.
    Actually the way you spam AOE with a demo and really be effective is to go Havoc Gen and feat out chained shock strike, splash damage, improved shockblast, and then alternate Shock Blast and shock strike. IOA had no place in a true AOE build unless you ran tribrid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    You either like the game or you don't. If you are hanging around because you feel like I am stringing you along with false promises, don't.

  7. #7

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    Black Ashes makes it worth your while to put an IoA into the rotation.

  8. #8

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    Again, your saying fix things while keeping everything else as is. That would lead to another 1.5 version of the demo.

    Nobody wants Impish Horde as a useful spell, because it makes no sense to have the the abilities to buff pet damage in one tree but you would have to max out another to get a 2 minute CD version of an unbuffed pet. That makes no sense.

    What your asking for is a complete redesign, which is not going to happen. How do you not play from 2008 and come back in 2013 and start demanding changes when you have not witnessed how long demo has been OP. You completely missed 1.5-2.0, which demo was easily the most super OP class ever seen, especially 1.5

    Honestly, your "synergy" is a terrible idea. Demo is still OP in most conditions. Maybe not vs. a team of tanks, but then again the only counter to that is another team of tanks.
    Doomsayer 2008

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenic View Post
    I spent 90% of my AOC life (while on my demo) running from one form of OP soldier or another... first it was Guards (F U Spaartan haha), then DT's, now it's baddies like Nozcoff.......

    OH in between there was the Sin City epidemic and the Fly By Wire Heat Seeking Arrows of the 2 shot rangers.

    Who has time to stand still? LOL
    True, but people worried about running out of stamina so they would give up after a few seconds. Now, people sprint all day. My DT can sprint for 20 seconds with 0 points in invigoration and regen it back in 15. My demo can sprint for 15 seconds and regen it back in 16 with 5 points fully feated. Add the charge, and the stagger, it much easier to chase people now than then. Which is why AoE is sidelined to the quicker FoG or longer ranged Shockstrike.
    Doomsayer 2008

  10. #10

    Default

    Naa, not anymore. the debuff is insignificant with as much burst damage as everyone does now. It used to be friggan OP but now getting -400 combat rating (or what ever it is) is nothing. Even if you were to remove 10-20 dps (which it's not) from a melee class, they still can burst for over 3-5k because most of their abilities are tied into 'non physical' damage. ex: VOM, sin Bomb, OLP, fire dmg for HoX. I think you are just having some trouble with adapting to the new game.

    Now you seriously just wanna stack Crit, Critigation, Tenacity, and HP. Essentially you want the fights to last longer so you can outlast the opponent. If the fight is over in 3 seconds, you lose 99% of the time.

    My Demo pvps at around 9k HP and as much prot and armor as I can find. If I go toe to toe with a Bori demo, I melt them because of my 30+% protections and high critigation.

    Back in the day I would have just CC locked them and stacked as much magic damage gear as I could and burn them down that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nusquam View Post
    You either like the game or you don't. If you are hanging around because you feel like I am stringing you along with false promises, don't.

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