FREE TOON LESSONS "In Game"

[Wabajack]

If they get more invested in the game, point them in the direction of the (class)forums. All the info they will ever need is right here.

That's true for some classes, but definitely not all of them... Even the classes with the best guides are also filled with large amounts of crappy or outdated info/builds

[Rathothis]

That's true for some classes, but definitely not all of them... Even the classes with the best guides are also filled with large amounts of crappy or outdated info/builds

True - but as Vehl pointed out, it's more than enough to allow a poor player to improve his gameplay.

To illustrate the point, here's a hypothetical ToS who needs help:

1. ToS who only uses heals, because "I'm a healer" - anyone can tell this guy he is doing something wrong, you don't even need to play a ToS to do so;

2. ToS who misses important spells in his build / rotation, e.g. doesn't use debuffs - any average ToS (and many non-ToSes) will be able to point this out to him;

3. ToS who has all the basics right, but misses some details, e.g. doesn't know that LS triggers Elemental Wrack at the start of the cast, isn't aware that Fangs of Set works on raid bosses, etc - this player might need information from a ToS who really knows the ins and outs of the class (though even this information is available here on these forums).

You don't need to bother the "best of the best" with type 1 and type 2 players. Helping these players typically falls to decent, but not great players like me. Though if the "best of the best" want to take over, I'd be mighty grateful for sure

[weretiger302]

The problem I see with what Schou's trying to do is that people just...don't want help I guess. Your healbot was a great example, and I'm sure we've all seen them. So, you try and tell them look, you can do great dps and still heal, and you get some knuckledragger response like "well, i just wanna heal, it's my playstyle, blah blah..." That- you can't really fix. That's why a bunch of middle tier guilds have absolutely no chance in T4- one or two knuckledraggers will just ruin the entire raids chances.

[Maly]

I don't care much about the subject, people who want to learn, they suck info from everywhere they can. people who suck, will do it 'til hell blaa, blaa. You can't force anyone to be like "you". You can't expect anyone who doesn't already have good understanding of game shite already, to filter all crap out from forum threads and only to read good stuff that there might be (probably is plenty, i don't have that filter on). As individual, you can't do anything to boost skill level in aoc. as a guild, maybe.. would be cool if all these awesome t4 raiders would descent from their mighty ivory towers and do some commoner raids every now and then. T1 and T2 done by pro's (sry if i sound sarcastic, this time i'm not) would perhaps give some ideas to new or less skilled folks? Perhaps one of those new, unskilled players that might join those raids would one day be one of best raiders in high tiers.

[Khaletohep]

Some random thoughts:

Practice, practice, practice.

In my experience, understanding all the classes details is a great thing, but DPS more of than not stays beyond the full potential not because of lacking knowledge about the class, but either because people just want to play "wrong" ("I'm just a healer."), don't pay attention (damn soccer/horny wives/crying children/pizza/telefone/youtube/internet porn!) or are distracted by the encounter mechanics.

Our raid's DPS tends to really go up a lot once people know how the fight works and are confident about focussing on their character now. Same goes for the tank's aggro. Everybody starts out very careful, and then they slowly build confidence and really start doing their thing. And that's a good thing! Few things are as stupid as damage dealer ruining good practice tries by drawing aggro or killing themselves with Spellweaving.

So, understanding your class is a good thing - but the most important thing is practicing the encounter, practicing your combos and spell rotations and just paying attention.

Also.. I've rarely seen a raid fail because of lacking DPS. In 6mans, that happens quite often, though. I suppose individual player skill/attention matters more there - a single "I'm just a healer"-priest doesn't matter all that much in a 24 person raid, but doing Scorpion Cave or Cavern of Malice, you learn to hate that mindset.

[Dodgeball]

Schou is onto a great thing here, having someone demonstrate and teach a class in person is much more effective than the cryptic and sometimes trolling advice read on the forums. Schou is really good at what he does, so his advice has strong credibility. I hope this goes over well for new and returning players.

[Naerri]

Lulz, are you the guy (guard) from recent BRC W2? That was fun, yeah :P

[kennyfisterbotm]

Mankind has learned that to teach a group of people, you will have to use multiple tools to get the exact same message across.

Some people can simply read it and apply it.

Some people require months of practice after shown a task visually.

Some people learn it by teaching others.

Some people can just never really get it at all, but try there best.

Some people just never get it, and don't try.


Why is giving lessons "visual, and auditory" in a game such a hard thing to understand here? People aren't all the same, and I accept this. What my overall goal is though, is to provide more people with some sort of help to maximize there toons.

The ideology of if they don't ask, they don't want it. Doesn't work for me. I didn't know I wanted a steak tonight for dinner until my wife suggested it. I knew I wanted to eat though "just playing the game". I hope you understand this analogy.

I also provided a base line with gear, and dps acceptable. This was just to show an idea for new players and potential vet players helping the newbies. Nothing more, nothing less! To measure success first you need a ruler.

I really encourage more players to step up to the plate. I see Halfdead volunteered, and Dodgeball stepped up as well. I appreciate this! Both are solid players, now just to actually apply the idea.

Also, Thanks Drest! It was going off subject, I'm glad you cleaned it up. I was away for a couple days working/RL/etc. So it was nice to see the thread cleaned up and back on subject.

[Phil77]

some people are just too stubborn. they don't want to learn because they think they already know best.
some don't trust your advice because they don't know you (or your achievements)
some are shy to admit they need help.
some don't understand that they need help.

this is very noticeable in pug raids also. use of poor tactics even after explaining why this particular tactic is not good and there is easier and faster way to do things. stubbornness on class roles, looting, tactics. some people are not able to come out of their comfort zones.

its a video game, damnit. you don't really die if you try something new (and better).

[CueQue]

some people are just too stubborn. they don't want to learn because they think they already know best.
some don't trust your advice because they don't know you (or your achievements)
some are shy to admit they need help.
some don't understand that they need help.

The 4 sins in AoC. I have lost the count of how many i've tried to help, no matter what i do they refuse to listen. ****ing retards usually ends up in t4 gear anyways...