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Thread: Is PVP really accessible for all players? Few suggestions.

  1. #61

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    Actually, there are two options:
    1) you can go straight to the mini with fresh toon, get raped, but to prove that you're a real PvP-er with iron nerves;
    2) you can go to Bori and quickly obtain the T1 PvP gear to feel more complete.
    Kattas - 10.PvP, full T6 and full AA demo

  2. #62

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    Fresh hox pvp perspective /exp player/: pvp 1-2: k/d in minis - av. 1-20/4-15 - focused all the time. pvp 3: still focused av. k/d: 3-10, 8-10 -> increased dmg and slightly survability. K/D without affect to win/loss ratio. If the team is good we win, if not we loose. Getting used to live as a glass cannon. Being focused is very annoying.

  3. #63

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    Getting focussed while playing hox? I can't believe it. Why would anyone focus a hox!?!

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheya View Post
    Getting focussed while playing hox? I can't believe it. Why would anyone focus a hox!?!
    I do not know. It might be a coincidence. HoXes are a bit overly powerful these days.
    • Remove daily rewards and the raid finder;
    • remove membership bonuses;
    • disable PVE XP for daily challenges;
    • remove WBs forever on Crom;
    • slow down the AA gain;
    • lower the PVP XP gain or remove the streak system;
    • remove AoE looting;
    • add the missing mobs back to Khesh., F. of the Dead, and Eigl. Mount.;
    • fix the 250+ms ping;
    • take the key away from Saddur;
    • revert T3, T3.5 (10.21.15), T4 (10.21.15), and GGG changes;
    • remove energy and add skills (like taunt) back.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerism View Post
    The only way to improve in this game pvp is continuous practice and commitment. Stick through the bad times enough and you'll get better at some point to reap some satisfaction and respect. Gear and AA will come along the way to ease the divide but that is not the main focus if one wants to perform better in pvp.
    This might have been true 7 years ago, but is not true now. Now you need to lick some boots (or have friends/alts/exploits) and know certain exploi....errr....tricks and game mechanics. There are no exploits in AoC or have ever been there.
    Of course you can improve and get better, but it will not change the outcome unless you join the grind/exploit train and get certain things. That's why it is a shame they ruined the lower pvp brackets completely, because the experience was different each time and in each bracket you had this option you mention to a different extend (worse even years ago at 80).

  6. #66

    Default Problem with PvP in game

    Perspective from a new player to the game:
    The "can't PvP w/out gear <-> Can't get gear w/out PvP" problem is a big hurdle - but the biggest problem in PvP by far is not having to die a lot (everybody expects that to happen)... The main problem is the attitude of some of the people in the Minis.

    This is how PvP is usually perceived by a lot of people:
    People go on global and complain "PvP is dying" "Guys come join the PvPs" then when u go join PvP as a new player, they go "Why you here Noob?!" and proceed to diss you out for all its worth for daring to join their precious PvP.

    So a lot of the new players I know just either don't want to join PvPs, or those who were initially interested in trying PvP don't come back after a few tries.

    That goes back full circle to the problem of the dwindling PvP population and the complaints of "PvP is dying".

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrizdc View Post
    Perspective from a new player to the game:
    The "can't PvP w/out gear <-> Can't get gear w/out PvP" problem is a big hurdle - but the biggest problem in PvP by far is not having to die a lot (everybody expects that to happen)... The main problem is the attitude of some of the people in the Minis.

    This is how PvP is usually perceived by a lot of people:
    People go on global and complain "PvP is dying" "Guys come join the PvPs" then when u go join PvP as a new player, they go "Why you here Noob?!" and proceed to diss you out for all its worth for daring to join their precious PvP.
    This is not an attitude problem. It is a problem of inadequate systems which produce that attitude.

    For PvP to be enjoyable, you need (i) a sufficient number of players, who (ii) are reasonably competitive. In the situation which you describe (which is fairly accurate), players are between a rock and a hard place, because (i) either minis don't start due to lack of players, or (ii) minis start, but the teams are imbalanced. Both lead to minigames not being enjoyable, and give rise to frustration.

    This situation is exacerbated by the fact that minigames are PUG-only. Team signups would allow veterans to bring along and support friends who are less familiar with PvP. In the current situation, fostering new players is discouraged, because the new players will be randomly allocated to either of the teams.

    So don't blame the players. Blame the devs who thought that increasing vertical power progression and disabling team play would be beneficial to PvP.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
    So don't blame the players. Blame the devs who thought that increasing vertical power progression and disabling team play would be beneficial to PvP.
    I remember the days when grouping up for minis was allowed. It was a usual occurrence for 1 team to be filled with randoms, while the other team is a group of 6 friends from the same guild who annihilate the random team and farm them on the rez pad til the game ends or everyone else leaves. More often than not players forced extreme imbalance because they had fun wiping the floor with newbs. This went on long enough and was doing such harm to the community that Funcom stepped in and put a stop to it. Then everything was a bit more balanced towards randomness. The solo mini player would actually often get on a decent team and good games would ensue.

    I feel that if Funcom were to allow full groups to sign up together again, it would make minis more populated for a short spike of time, then things would quickly get worse than they are now due to the *pro* players always being grouped together.

  9. #69

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    I remember them abit different.Usually when a premade was running, a nice bunch of people were teaming up to have more chances to win,and everyone was trying to improve their gameplay while we were making contacts and we were making friends or enemies.Many times when a premade was running other premade was forming after a while and was trying to guess what mini the first premade was signing to go face it.And almost every time the premades if they were totally superior to the pugs they were finishing it as soon as possible by capping.

    Now lets compare it with today's system,every mini you sign its 50/50 % that you are going to win,and its 50% that you are going to farm enemies on respad for 20 min or 50% that enemies will camp you for 20 min.Many times you start with not even full group with half your team going in hide after 1 death.And what you can do about it?Absolutely nothing because this random nonsense is there and you cant even sign as a duo.Also its pointless to even have group chat on while you play these minis since no tactis are involved nor anyone cares,everyone is just happy if on the next mini their group of strangers can stomp enemies.

    But anyways its pointless to even keep discussing it since nothing is going to change because funcom doesnt care about aoc,if it was tsw probably they would have acted after all these threads and posts all these years but its aoc.

    Also regarding the discussion of pvpers behaviour,only thing you need to do is just ignore the usuall rotten apples that are writing all these kind of nice things in every mini and everything is fine,I usually do that, not because I care about the mental problems they might have or their opinion but because they are just becoming annoying spamming chat.
    Last edited by zeuss; 23rd May 2016 at 15:50.
    IVORY TOWER

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by tapwater View Post
    I remember the days when grouping up for minis was allowed. It was a usual occurrence for 1 team to be filled with randoms, while the other team is a group of 6 friends from the same guild who annihilate the random team and farm them on the rez pad til the game ends or everyone else leaves. More often than not players forced extreme imbalance because they had fun wiping the floor with newbs. This went on long enough and was doing such harm to the community that Funcom stepped in and put a stop to it. Then everything was a bit more balanced towards randomness. The solo mini player would actually often get on a decent team and good games would ensue.

    I feel that if Funcom were to allow full groups to sign up together again, it would make minis more populated for a short spike of time, then things would quickly get worse than they are now due to the *pro* players always being grouped together.
    Sure there was some respad-farming in the days of premades vs PUGs. But PvP is about winning by superior skill, where skill is the product of manual dexterity, and coordination among the group. Losing to better coordinated teams creates incentives to play with others yourself, instead of playing the game as a loner (this is precisely the situation which Zeuss describes in his post above). Which is good for the PvP community, as well as for the profits of the publisher. So as a general rule, group PvP should be open to groups and not random-only.

    Now there may be cases where this general rule doesn't hold. It may be difficult to realize full group signups in AoC at this stage, as the current player-base is used to playing solo, the number of new players is quite low, and vertical power progression creates significant entry barriers to newbies. But allowing smaller teams of 2 or 3 people would not carry the same risk, while allowing for a lot of the advantages of group-based PvP (more competitive PvP environment, possibility to support new players).

    Also, regarding this game's history: It is not a coincidence that group signups were disabled after the introduction of Bori. The reason is twofold: first, the vertical power progression introduced by Bori gave people incentives to rig the system in order to farm tokens more quickly (by signing up with a full group and half a group, with the half group then going afk). Secondly, it meant that hardcore players who already had an advantage in terms of coordination (i.e., a skill-based advantage) in addition received an advantage in terms of gear (i.e., a non skill-based advantage). Both of these developments made it considerably less attractive for casuals who had previously signed up for minigames to continue to do so. But this doesn't mean that disabling group signups was the right reaction on the part of FC - what they should have done instead is to look really hard at whether (more than nominal) vertical power progression is a good idea in team-based PvP content.
    Last edited by Rathothis; 23rd May 2016 at 15:50.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

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