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Thread: Viable Guard S&B Tanking builds

  1. #11

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    How about deliberate reprisal instead of counterstrike? (and as a replacement for champion spirit, I never part from CW unless I'm running STA) Does pretty nice damage when it crits and the critigation buff isn't that bad. Still, it's not something I use when I'm not solo tanking or have super high aggro to start with because it's anything but an aggro tool (and limited to physical bosses anyway).
    Last edited by kalston; 24th April 2015 at 18:37.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redd View Post
    It is not as powerful as you think, but it seems none of you have read fully my opinion about it. I do agree it's ok to be used if you're solo tanking and it wont harm you but it did not get a significant buff. Regarding champion spirit, it is a good concept but the buff itself is underwhelming unless you think 4% received heal modifier makes a noticeable difference? Plus magical damage doesn't trigger champion spirit and counterstrike at all.
    I'm not saying it's super powerful or anything. I said it went from "totally sub-par trash" to "situationally useful", and that it pair well with some AA.

    +500 armor (I don't think the +Received health is really worthy) for a relatively new or "not optimally" geared tank, during physical fight, is always appreciable. It's a more decent filler, now.

    So yes, I agree with you when you say there's other combo that should have the priority above this one, I agree it's limited to physical tanking fight, and I agree it's not to use when you struggle to get aggro, but I disagree with you when you say we should "Try not to use Counterstrike at all" and that the only good thing is that it "doesn't hurt" (to quote your words). It have it's use. It situational and you should think before using it, but I feel it's something that can have its use. Then again, I'm probably a worse guard than all of you in this thread since my guard is just an alt I don't play very often, but I just want to underline the fact that counterstrike went from "don't touch this crap" to "sometime ok".
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    Fun fact : Not actually the same guy as the player named "Jaedelyia" in-game. Never though I would one day encounter a guy with the same nickname as this one.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaedelyia View Post
    I'm not saying it's super powerful or anything. I said it went from "totally sub-par trash" to "situationally useful", and that it pair well with some AA.

    +500 armor (I don't think the +Received health is really worthy) for a relatively new or "not optimally" geared tank, during physical fight, is always appreciable. It's a more decent filler, now.

    So yes, I agree with you when you say there's other combo that should have the priority above this one, I agree it's limited to physical tanking fight, and I agree it's not to use when you struggle to get aggro, but I disagree with you when you say we should "Try not to use Counterstrike at all" and that the only good thing is that it "doesn't hurt" (to quote your words). It have it's use. It situational and you should think before using it, but I feel it's something that can have its use. Then again, I'm probably a worse guard than all of you in this thread since my guard is just an alt I don't play very often, but I just want to underline the fact that counterstrike went from "don't touch this crap" to "sometime ok".
    One little correction it is + 400 armor :P But I still think it is not really good for a beginner because Stall the Advance is way more useful instead of it.

    But we can agree on your last sentence "counterstrike went from "don't touch this crap" to "sometime ok", but nothing else sadly.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaedelyia View Post
    I'm not saying it's super powerful or anything. I said it went from "totally sub-par trash" to "situationally useful", and that it pair well with some AA.

    +500 armor (I don't think the +Received health is really worthy) for a relatively new or "not optimally" geared tank, during physical fight, is always appreciable. It's a more decent filler, now.
    For me 400armor gives me 0.3% mitigation bonus, and i need to HAVE aggro to build it up, id much rather go with 50% deflection x3 hits, when i rly need it, some people seem to forget that stall can be used as 2nd buble instead of just aggro-tool, if you feel your aggro is safe
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  5. #15

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    The biggest issue with Stall is the fact it's not an offensive aggro tool, it's strictly defensive. Case and point, if you don't already have aggro it's useless.

    The bubble aspect of it is a good thought, but I all to often see guards use stall as a bubble when they are at 10% health etc. This is just bad practice for obvious reasons. Used initially you cant beet the instant aggro you get from it, it's pretty no skill to pop it, and even tanks that are lacking the overall knowledge or know how on the guard can keep aggro even for a little bit at the start of each fight. Which is kinda bad and kinda good, depending on how you look at it, it gives a false sense of success in some cases.

    Now, my favorite topic "Counterstrike". This makes no sense to me at all. Not only is the heal it gives you pretty fail, the altered 4% incoming heal buff "if you have it feated" a smack in the face based on the % alloted, the overall concept is flawed. (Lets increase retal dps which increases hate when we need to heal up, and an offtank to pull it off of me) , this is comparable to (lets shoot heroin so I can potentially recover) the action "which in this case is bad" out weighs the outcome.

    The only thing you can do "with the current mechanics" of this combo is to increase the overall threat of the Counterstrike comb its self. As it stands Overreach, Counterweight, Dulling blow all have higher threat mechanics than that of Counterstrike. The retal damage is ok, but the intial dps from it needs to be increased to make it viable to use in terms of aggro rotation. Also, while you are at it, if you are to keep the healing aspect of it, for crying out loud make it noticeable, at it's current setting it's pathetic. And the AA that allows the incoming heals to be altered with 4% increase, INCREASE the %. 4% is crap!!!!! Make it 20% or something, again make the guard have AA's that actually mean something other than just Counterweight, and Stall for end feats.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  6. #16

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    I was just thinking about Guard AA's, and an idea came to mind. A new AA( or replace sustaining wrath) that when used allowed the guard to use all of his tactics/maneuvers at once, for a brief duration of course. Before you think this is crazy, look at the Conqs AA battlefield commander it did wonders for that class boosting its buffs. Personally I like the idea of having all those buffs at once because they are not only defensive some are offensive and could work nicely together.
    Last edited by Dodgeball; 25th April 2015 at 17:24.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgeball View Post
    I was just thinking about Guard AA's, and an idea came to mind. A new AA( or replace sustaining wrath) that when used allowed the guard to use all of his tactics/maneuvers at once, for a brief duration of course. Before you think this is crazy, look at the Conqs AA battlefield commander it did wonders for that class boosting its buffs. Personally I like the idea of having all those buffs at once because they are not only defensive some are offensive and could work nicely together.
    And the point of this ability would be? Everything would decay away anyway, and the aggro of the guard isn't the problem here, it's aggro is just fine. YA those DT talis can get aggro locked eventually on them but thats not what tanking is all about. The guard needs some sort of healing mechanic behind it because as of rite now both other class's have this but the guards don't.

    But I guess the more important thing to realize is this post wasn't intended to debate guard AA's etc. Hopefully the guy up top got the help he needed.
    Last edited by kennyfisterbotm; 26th April 2015 at 13:33.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    For me 400armor gives me 0.3% mitigation bonus, and i need to HAVE aggro to build it up, id much rather go with 50% deflection x3 hits, when i rly need it, some people seem to forget that stall can be used as 2nd buble instead of just aggro-tool, if you feel your aggro is safe
    If you're solo tanking Stall is practically a second bubble, if you need to share agro stall is the wrong way to go.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    And the point of this ability would be? Everything would decay away anyway, and the aggro of the guard isn't the problem here, it's aggro is just fine. YA those DT talis can get aggro locked eventually on them but thats not what tanking is all about. The guard needs some sort of healing mechanic behind it because as of rite now, both other class's have this but the guards don't.

    But I guess the more important thing to realize is this post wasn't intended to debate guard AA's etc. Hopefully the guy up top got the help he needed.
    I never said agro was the problem, just suggested an alternate solution to an otherwise crappy AA like sustaining wrath which have no practical use. I was making an AA argument like you did... "make the guard have AA's that actually mean something other than just Counterweight, and Stall for end feats." Also, don't create a long post analyzing guard AA's and then claim " this post wasn't intended to debate guard AA's" to others. kind of Hypocritical of you.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgeball View Post
    I never said agro was the problem, just suggested an alternate solution to an otherwise crappy AA like sustaining wrath which have no practical use. I was making an AA argument like you did... "make the guard have AA's that actually mean something other than just Counterweight, and Stall for end feats." Also, don't create a long post analyzing guard AA's and then claim " this post wasn't intended to debate guard AA's" to others. kind of Hypocritical of you.
    I'm just saying in general we all got off point here. The guy was looking for help on guard and we are all talking AA's etc. Don't get goaded by such a small comment that wasn't intended towards you directly.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

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