Message to old players (and new ones maybe)

[Aecho]

Being a fairly new player, I have to think that the OP is part of the problem hes emo-raging about...but thats just me I guess. Its not that "new players" don't do whats expected of them, maybe they don't KNOW what to do...did you ever stop to think that your "new players are n00bs" attitude is the kind of garbage rage that chases new players away? Something I learned in other MMOs doing PUGS is that the only thing you really control in a PUG is...YOU.

I know its a bit messy with edits, but try reading OPs post again... XD

[Korando-AoC]

I know its a bit messy with edits, but try reading OPs post again... XD

Hey Aecho! Nice to see you around.. you came to my mind when I read this nice post by Maly..

[Mellaus]

I for one am a bit surprised by Maly's outrage on this matter.

Running a number of pugs on a weekly basis, i cannot say that i share the same vision. It's actually rather uncommon for me to witness a newbie being flamed and raged at by an older player.
I can only speak for Crom during EU time, but still, i feel that the overal gaming environment in AoC is more than decent, and nowhere near toxic.

As a matter of fact, i cannot recall the last time i've been in a group where a newbie got bullied.

Now, even if we take PvP into consideration, the amount of rage there is suprisingly low in my experience. There are just a handful of well known [Edit by Drest: unicorns] to put on ignore, but once this is done, one can enjoy what i would call a pleasant experience, providing one has any interest in PvP at all of course.

All in all, the inital post seems to be the consequence of a one time unfortunate experience, more than the sign of any trend.

[Greyloins]

I for one am a bit surprised by Maly's outrage on this matter.

Running a number of pugs on a weekly basis, i cannot say that i share the same vision. It's actually rather uncommon for me to witness a newbie being flamed and raged at by an older player.
I can only speak for Crom during EU time, but still, i feel that the overal gaming environment in AoC is more than decent, and nowhere near toxic.

As a matter of fact, i cannot recall the last time i've been in a group where a newbie got bullied.

Now, even if we take PvP into consideration, the amount of rage there is suprisingly low in my experience. There are just a handful of well known [Edit by Drest: unicorns] to put on ignore, but once this is done, one can enjoy what i would call a pleasant experience, providing one has any interest in PvP at all of course.

All in all, the inital post seems to be the consequence of a one time unfortunate experience, more than the sign of any trend.

I haven't really seen anyone get bullied for being new either, but I've seen a lot of drama and name-calling in pug raids, accusations of people from one guild or another being scrubs etc.

The elitism is in the form of increasingly dumb LFG messages. A while ago, some idiot started asking for "brains" in his group spam, and now you see that every day. More recently, someone started asking for 2 maintanks for even the easiest of dungeons like flame/vortex or yag, and that trend is also being parroted every day. Then we have of course the good gold "aa exp gear" demand. It's no wonder many new players don't get into the game; once they reach 80 they can't progress at all (unless they get an newb-friendly guild), since they need exp to get exp and need gear to get gear.

[Redd]

Most of PUG groups asking for exp and AA's don't have them themselves.

But there are plenty of players and raid leaders who have patience to explain everything to new players, what you cannot change is the fact that there will be always players that don't want to do that. Some might go to extreme and be rude about it kicking inexperienced players which is an idiotic behavior if you ask me.

Saying all pug groups are bad due to this or that is a pure generalization, you have many different people playing the game so it all comes down to luck factor who you will end up in PUG group with.

The best way to avoid it is to join a guild and add good players you meet to your friend list, solely relying on pure PUGs inevitably leads to bad experiences from time to time but it doesn't mean you still can't find good and patient players to team up with.

[Rathothis]

Running a number of pugs on a weekly basis, i cannot say that i share the same vision. It's actually rather uncommon for me to witness a newbie being flamed and raged at by an older player.
I can only speak for Crom during EU time, but still, i feel that the overal gaming environment in AoC is more than decent, and nowhere near toxic.

This is true in most cases as most PUGs have a sufficient number of vets to make sure that things go rather smoothly. But in my experience, things turn sour relatively quickly once things go wrong. One wipe e.g. on Athyr-Bast due to tanks who don't really know the fight, and accusations will start to fly in raid chat. Two wipes, and people will leave.

Not sure how it is in other games though - I guess PUG raids are never the best place to learn encounter mechanics.

Now, even if we take PvP into consideration, the amount of rage there is suprisingly low in my experience. There are just a handful of well known [Edit by Drest: unicorns] to put on ignore, but once this is done, one can enjoy what i would call a pleasant experience, providing one has any interest in PvP at all of course.

Well, as a healer, you need to put up with rangers crying for heals. But ofc not healing rangers is a matter of personal integrity.

[Chaman-bourru]

As a vet, if i join pugs it's either because i'm utterly bored with no friends online, or because i'm gearing up a new toon. The first option doesn't happen very frequently, i'd rather roam in open-world with a ranger. Second option is more frequent and i must admit my i don't have enough patience to wait 30mins for a guy lost in kara korum or wipe 5 times on Fire boss because the rogue doesn't know what he's doing and only speaks korean. Explaining takes time and energy, especially when you have to do it in an other language. A few explanations can be done, but for any extensive explanations... not gonna bother with pugs i'll probably never play with again.

It might be a toxic behaviour, but i find it pretty much as toxic as trying to learn the game with strangers rather than with friends/guildies.

[LunaticAsylumLA]

Some might go to extreme and be rude about it kicking inexperienced players which is an idiotic behavior if you ask me.

I got kicked without a word from W3 once at the Imp for putting on blue Acheronian protection gear for the fight on my Guardian (it was not 80 and blue!)

More recently, someone started asking for 2 maintanks for even the easiest of dungeons like flame/vortex or yag, and that trend is also being parroted every day.

Or two healers... But that might be explained as, for example, in your case, the solo healer having no AA healing or being not too experienced. Two healers can help with tanks in pre-80 gear with no Resolve or for one solo tank though.
I am not sure why it is THAT popular to ask for two healers both at and before 80 with two tanks.

[AngryBarb]

I remember some people in a T3 raid crying before we started the Brothers due to the fact that my nab DT was sporting a shiny T2 set and Acheronian blues for protection fights. Lucky for me a friendly Barrier helped me out in tells and I tanked the bosses with him just fine.

Gear is overrated!!!

[Gankosarus]

I think it was abit of a rage post, But i do have to agree in some extent i have returned to the game after 3 year break to find no one wants new players in groups nor do they wish to take time an help players learn (this is based on a majority not on a whole) For Pvp i find it unplayable due to the Massive difference from pvp gear an AA. Sadly i like pvp so im happy to take a thrashing while my aa grows and i learn the dynamics again. But if i was a totally new player i doubt i would bother with pvp full stop.
For PVE i think everyone will agree that you see EXP, AA, Gear only they may as well put boring dull speed run with no excitement involved only pros and elitist allowed. then these same players will moan about low pop and not enough ppl doing instances....

We can moan an snipe allday but the only thing that will sort out the above issuses is the players being more friendly and play A MMO how it should with others. I also believe that there should be a system in place to reward the helpers and hinder the Elitist who dont wish to help ppl and just hoard more gear an shiz niz maybe a buff of some kind. rant over