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Thread: I'm looking for a offtank build

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boesch View Post
    Throat slash/Improved Throat Slash have a lower return of DPS/point than other selections. It becomes worse when you are trying to get aggro because you don't even have the benefit of the retaliatory damage and instead are relying on the internal proc rate instead. Essentially it is about on par when you are solely holding aggro and a poor choice when you want aggro.

    Edit: I feel perhaps some explanation is deserved here.

    I have a really old spreadsheet here that has some numbers that I hope aren't totally out of date. They were however numbers for a full T4 Conq with basically the best in slot everything so they are/were at the peak of performance at the time.

    (snip..)
    Depends what you mean about "really old". Here's the patch 2,5 years ago where it got changed; https://forums.ageofconan.com/showth...1th-of-October

    GoDS is good and Weapon damage is also good. But GoDS is a crap combo, only do it for the buff's sake, and along with Feint Attack 9 the two combos a Brute should swap weapons for. Blood Bath, Bloody Hack, Breach and Throat Slash (dual wield) should be in the tanking rotation.
    Last edited by Shax84; 25th March 2015 at 12:04.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    Depends what you mean about "really old". Here's the patch 2,5 years ago where it got changed; https://forums.ageofconan.com/showth...1th-of-October

    GoDS is good and Weapon damage is also good. But GoDS is a crap combo, only do it for the buff's sake, and along with Feint Attack 9 the two combos a Brute should swap weapons for. Blood Bath, Bloody Hack, Breach and Throat Slash (dual wield) should be in the tanking rotation.
    It feels a bit odd to be told this sort of thing when I am one of the people who wrote the book on Brute tanking, and have done 2600 DPS single target on Zodiac and played as Brute and gone over 1400 DPS while tanking. No, bloody hack should not be in your rotation. No, throat slash (dual wield) should not be in your rotation. Both are lower DPS combos, there is this myth that the extra attacks proc more GODS however there is an internal cooldown on self procs of GODS which makes them pointless. The lower base DPS of 1H weapons mean the combos hit for less. Moving away from this 'appeal to authority' fallacy, I have already posted the maths of why those points you suggest are incorrect and I would only suggest you read through and consider this.
    Last edited by Boesch; 26th March 2015 at 09:06.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boesch View Post
    It feels a bit odd to be told this sort of thing when I am one of the people who wrote the book on Brute tanking, and have done 2600 DPS single target on Zodiac and played as Brute and gone over 1400 DPS while tanking. No, bloody hack should not be in your rotation. No, throat slash (dual wield) should not be in your rotation. Both are lower DPS combos, there is this myth that the extra attacks proc more GODS however there is an internal cooldown on self procs of GODS which makes them pointless. The lower base DPS of 1H weapons mean the combos hit for less. Moving away from this 'appeal to authority' fallacy, I have already posted the maths of why those points you suggest are incorrect and I would only suggest you read through and consider this.
    So you aren't considering shield direction on the mob? The hits are lower on 1HE combos for sure, but there's more of them, and the offhand too. You are clearly the most experienced Conqueror in this thread, and with your math to back that up too, your feat points are unquestionable.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    So you aren't considering shield direction on the mob? The hits are lower on 1HE combos for sure, but there's more of them, and the offhand too. You are clearly the most experienced Conqueror in this thread, and with your math to back that up too, your feat points are unquestionable.

    1. From memory (it's been a while), Bloody Hack hits the same side as HOFS. No benefit and regardless it would be a very, very small part of a good rotation anyway.
    2. More hits don't matter, you need to consider base DPS (lower with 1H weapons) + combo bonus.
    3. Without feating of the offhand it doesn't add up to enough to counter #2.
    4. Yep I am the most experienced in this thread.
    5. Yes I have the math to back it up.
    6. No, my feat points aren't unquestionable (the numbers are right there for you to pick apart if you see something wrong), but your arguments are simply that you like GODS rather than anything supported by real numbers. GODS is awesome. The proc is awesome. But those points to improve it can be spent better elsewhere. They will absolutely not make or break a build though, it's a matter of some marginal DPS gains (or losses). If you are solo tanking, the points are roughly equal.
    Last edited by Boesch; 26th March 2015 at 10:53.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boesch View Post
    1. From memory (it's been a while), Bloody Hack hits the same side as HOFS. No benefit and regardless it would be a very, very small part of a good rotation anyway.
    2. More hits don't matter, you need to consider base DPS (lower with 1H weapons) + combo bonus.
    3. Without feating of the offhand it doesn't add up to enough to counter #2.
    4. Yep I am the most experienced in this thread.
    5. Yes I have the math to back it up.
    6. No, my feat points aren't unquestionable (the numbers are right there for you to pick apart if you see something wrong), but your arguments are simply that you like GODS rather than anything supported by real numbers. GODS is awesome. The proc is awesome. But those points to improve it can be spent better elsewhere. They will absolutely not make or break a build though, it's a matter of some marginal DPS gains (or losses). If you are solo tanking, the points are roughly equal.
    Oh, I just noticed on the tooltips that Improved Throat Slash and Scourge only improves the retalitory strikes.. How did I miss that. If the feats doesn't enhance the offensive procs then it is even worse than what you proved in your calculations. Thanks for the replies, it's always nice to learn something new.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiulo88 View Post
    Thanks.This build seems to give me what I was looking for. I haven't yet used against zodiac bosses but yesterday it work pretty fine at Saddur boss. I was able to get into the tanking rotation and I could resists some hits. (I used Yun + Yag-kosha blunts).

    I have 3 doubts about this build:

    1: Is 1 point in defience actually doing something? I didn't notice the heal at all.
    2:Anihilate has a big CD and I'm not sure if it gives more dps than improving a 2% the bloody hack. Maybe your idea is using anihilate+hateful strikes just before whirlwind finisher to maximize the chances to pull the boss?
    3:And finally the bloodlust point. Is really useful using breach in a raid rotation?I thouhgt the optimal dps rotation in a radi with a conq was spaming BB,WW,BH and repeat.
    Defiance : a group wide heal is kinda sweet in zodiac and champ unchained. Not huge, but for 1 point, i feel it's worth it. It's actually not really for you when you tank, because 500 hp for 1 target is kinda wasted, so i use it in combination of the healing banner when there's damage flying around, it's a group help tool.

    Annihilate : it's meh, but still better than 2 points in improved bloody hack. I use it with blood bath, mainly because BB does not benefit from the inner crit chance of WW, thus i feel i get more from annihilate coupled to BB instead of WW. Difference is not really noticeable in row number from what i've checked, it's just personal preferences.

    Bloodlust : 1 point spent there is worth more than anything you can get at that level in the feat tree. And breach shall not be underesimated, it can hit very hard, and it's super fast on a beneficial side for conqs. Even before my conq had the T5 set, i was still using it, but now with the T5 bonuses, it's even sweeter to use it, since it gives you in tanking situation (understand banner/formation choice) +5% armor. Anything but negligeable.
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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    Oh, I just noticed on the tooltips that Improved Throat Slash and Scourge only improves the retalitory strikes.. How did I miss that. If the feats doesn't enhance the offensive procs then it is even worse than what you proved in your calculations. Thanks for the replies, it's always nice to learn something new.
    However, the tooltip for Improved Dancing Steel reads that at rank 5, the retaliatory strikes also trigger from the conqueror's attacks.

    It doesn't say that it provides "extra offensive procs", for example.

    Thus meaning that any GoDS proc (feated 5/5 IDS) would be considered a retaliatory strike, even when it's triggered by a conq who isn't being hit.
    Last edited by hassanchop; 26th March 2015 at 19:43.

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