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Thread: I'm looking for a offtank build

  1. #1

    Default I'm looking for a offtank build

    Hi, last night a RL command me to help 2 DTs (almost full t4 geared ) tanking Zodiac with my conq (full last legion hate geared+T2 2HE). Due to I'm one of the worst players in the game I wasn't able to change the agro with them without using force engaged or goad. So I'm thinking about doing a new build to deal with this.

    My idea is be able to get agro occasionally while the 2 DTs rest a little. So I can sacrifice mitigation to get more agro. My frist idea is this:

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v16_116...d8080d0fc0d610

    (with this build I have 51% of mitigation)
    Maybe using Rally instead of battlefield commanding would help me. What do you think?

    Thanks for reading this.


    PD: Not interested in comments telling me that with 2 full DTs you don't need an offtank because the zodiac can be solotanked and conq should go DPS.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  2. #2

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    I would advise a carnage specc in the line of this :

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v16_116...c8000c7380ccb0

    I use that kind of specc for time trials when i have to tank stuff and still stance dance and pull good dps. Brute is just way too much of a turtle specc and ovekill for that kind of situation.

    And yes, rally will give you better result when it comes to just take aggro and hold it for like 10-15 seconds. That being said, i for one would still use BFC, just because of the overall dps increase.
    {Circle of Eternity}
    Mellaus
    Lachdanann dt | Aldebarrand guard | Ataraxes demo | Tangorogrim tos | Aranruth barb | Demether pom | Errant ranger | Diluvien sin | Hekatomb necro | Haemmer bs | Nyarlathotep tos

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus View Post
    I would advise a carnage specc in the line of this :

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v16_116...c8000c7380ccb0

    I use that kind of specc for time trials when i have to tank stuff and still stance dance and pull good dps. Brute is just way too much of a turtle specc and ovekill for that kind of situation.

    And yes, rally will give you better result when it comes to just take aggro and hold it for like 10-15 seconds. That being said, i for one would still use BFC, just because of the overall dps increase.
    Thanks I'll try this. Not sure if I'll be able to manage 2W tanking but it's a great excuse to get 2 1HB of yun
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  4. #4

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    When it comes to AA as long as the fight last more than one minute BFC outperform rally.

    When it comes to "offtanking" on physical damage bosses just go full carnage dps build but make sure you have flashing defence equipped, your lack of hate reduction makes it easy to take aggro and when you do just go defencive stance and bubble up if needed. A brute conq is not supposed to be able to keep up with DT in zodiac fight without the retributive damage from you get from holdning aggro.

    Considering the strenght of your DTs if you want to continue to go brute why dont you take charge and actually tank the bosses, you can easy lock the aggro in the begining and then it is just to do all the good things and you will keep it(at least until the first Tempest).
    I am Stian ingame...

  5. #5

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    Quite why two full T4 DT's need a Conq to take aggro briefly for a rest is beyond me, they should be more than capable of doing all the tanking between them on this fight.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darm View Post
    Quite why two full T4 DT's need a Conq to take aggro briefly for a rest is beyond me, they should be more than capable of doing all the tanking between them on this fight.
    Thanks for reading the beginning of my post but please if you want to be helpful stay on topic. It's not in my hand changing the DTs tanking way or the tactics the only thing I control is my Conq. And if I've been asked to take aggro I want to be able to do it nothing else.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  7. #7

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    Happens when there is too much disparity between the 2 tanks, one is going too low on HP and keeps building aggro, the other one does not want to goad because it's ashaming to have to, thus you might need that extra offtank to take over and save the hero dt who's enjoying his e-peen.

    If the 2 dts are full T4, it might happen because one of them has a symbol within his reach, thus is building much more aggro through multi-hits, or because one is using pots and the other not, or one is lagging much more than the other, or because the groups are weirdly made and one DT got much more group benefit than the other, or because a PoM popped blessing on one of the DTs and the other does not have it.
    So many situations where that kind of imbalance can happen.
    {Circle of Eternity}
    Mellaus
    Lachdanann dt | Aldebarrand guard | Ataraxes demo | Tangorogrim tos | Aranruth barb | Demether pom | Errant ranger | Diluvien sin | Hekatomb necro | Haemmer bs | Nyarlathotep tos

  8. #8

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    You're sort of being asked here to do something the class can't do. Two (almost) full T4 DTs on one of the best DT fights in the game are just not going to lose aggro to a Conq, let alone one who is in Khitai gear with a T2 sword. You need to get the raid leader to see this because you're just bashing your head against a brick wall otherwise.

    You will get suggestions about what the DTs have to do because tanking is a collaborative team effort and the whole deck is stacked in their favour. They need to either keep at it until they can solo 90% of the fight or they need to drop their aggro and learn to trade with you. You can't be expected to pull the same kind of aggro they do, they must understand that if they need you they need to play to your style as well. It's a two way street.

    With that said, there's two ways I see you going about getting the maximum aggro you can.

    1. Traditional Brute Spec. If you were fully geared then this can work if the DTs are prepared to perhaps run shield/desecration. The specs you are proposing I don't believe are 'perfect' but the differences to what I would do are negligible so just run with them.

    2. Carnage DPS. Just go for maximum DPS and be prepared to use Flashing Defence. Stay in frenzy until you take aggro. Even in defensive stance a Carnage DPS can still take a few hits in a row so you can be adaptable if you can touch aggro infrequently to take the pressure off - irritate is an excellent 'feeler' ability to reach out and it will only give you aggro for a short while so you can use it periodically to test the waters and get a feel for where you are. It does require some skill and it will take some practice to work out what level of aggro the other tanks have, but you have enormous DPS to work your way up there and you can also run the tanking discipline and activate it for yourself. Tanks will wonder why the f*** they can't keep it off you when you do that...

    Overall I think a Guardian is far, far superior to fill the role you are being asked for. Whatever happens though you are being asked to do something you probably just aren't able to so you should book some of your raid leaders time to analyse what is really going on and solve it together.

  9. #9

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    Two DT should do that fight easy-mode. If there are problems with placing the bosses, advise ToS to feat Fangs of Set and use that so they don't take those crushing hits at the start of each boss fight.

    Your proposed build isn't particular good as it lacks feating in Guard of Dancing Steel. I would advise this build or similar: http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v16_116...d9310d0fc0d610
    Last edited by Shax84; 20th March 2015 at 13:25.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    Two DT should do that fight easy-mode. If there are problems with placing the bosses, advise ToS to feat Fangs of Set and use that so they don't take those crushing hits at the start of each boss fight.

    Your proposed build isn't particular good as it lacks feating in Guard of Dancing Steel. I would advise this build or similar: http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v16_116...d9310d0fc0d610
    Throat slash/Improved Throat Slash have a lower return of DPS/point than other selections. It becomes worse when you are trying to get aggro because you don't even have the benefit of the retaliatory damage and instead are relying on the internal proc rate instead. Essentially it is about on par when you are solely holding aggro and a poor choice when you want aggro.

    Edit: I feel perhaps some explanation is deserved here.

    I have a really old spreadsheet here that has some numbers that I hope aren't totally out of date. They were however numbers for a full T4 Conq with basically the best in slot everything so they are/were at the peak of performance at the time.

    The base damage (ie: non crit) for a GODS was 180. The expected damage from a GODS was Base + Base * Crit% * Crit Bonus Damage.

    The numbers I had for crit and crit bonus damage were: 40% crit, 88% crit bonus damage. I'm pretty sure I had some decent buffs in mind when I ran that.

    So we need to look at the base damage you get vs the damage you get for all the points you have suggested investing.

    BASE: 180 + 180 * .4 * .88 = 243.36

    BUFFED: 180 + 180 * .5 * 1.33 = 299.7

    The difference / proc therefore is 56.34.

    GODS has an internal proc rate of once/three seconds (this does not include retaliatory strikes!). So you get 56.34 once every 3 seconds at the very best, which is 18.78 DPS. Now finally you can convert that back to DPS / point which is 18.78 DPS / 5 = 3.756 DPS.

    To put that in perspective, lets consider Sustained Rage which is, for 5 points, 15% weapon damage.

    150 DPS (base) * .15 = 22.5 DPS
    Add the potential for crits: 22.5 + 22.5 * .4 * .88 = 30.42 DPS

    This calculates to 6.084 DPS per point.

    So if you are trying to acquire aggro, Sustained Rage is better than the suggestion you have provided.

    Some further thoughts is that taking Scourge on its own (without the crit damage buffs) gives a good return.

    180 + 180 * .5 * .88 = 259.2

    For one point that's a 15.84 point difference in each of your GODS procs, which is 5.28 DPS/second per point. That is still worse than Sustained Rage but better than a 5 point investment down down the Throat Slash/Improved Throat Slash line (+scourge, of course).
    Last edited by Boesch; 20th March 2015 at 13:55.

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