Sillyness of Decap+ATG

[CueQue]

Please show us what you can do in full t1, including weapons with and without buffs. Will take ages to get the right stats because it depends so much on luck.

[Usedtissue]

Having to buff Decap (or AtG or both) executing two previous combos is "quick"?

What do you call a ranger's Penetrating Shot? Or LB + advantage?
A sin's bomb + DWW?
A necro's Ice Strike + Chill?
A demo's three instant nukes?
Any single DT's combo buffed by VoM's crit damage buff?

Justifying it's existence because there are other unbalanced abilities ingame is a pretty bad way to do it...

That's like saying it's okay to steal because other people have done it.

This thread is about barb only as you can see in the title so let's stick to that. Like others have said as well it doesn't take preparation because you should already be using the precursors in daily combat. I shouldn't have to tell you to use stun or KB you should just be using it so I wouldn't call that preperation considering that what you should be normally doing.

[Usedtissue]

I'd actually love to see an answer to this as well:

Barb as a class relies on the concept of getting stronger the longer you're in combat. The higher the bursts, the shorter the fights, the less efficient it becomes.

I'd like you to tell me how a barb one shotting a character in half a second fits with barbs original image like you say. I.e a warrior that gets stronger as the fight goes on.

[MagnusLL]

I'd like you to tell me how a barb one shotting a character in half a second fits with barbs original image like you say. I.e a warrior that gets stronger as the fight goes on.

Apart from the exaggeration, which I'll ignore: it doesn't, but the original concept doesn't work anymore, that's my point. The dps levels are too high and the fights too short for it to still work. That's why the barb needs a way of doing a quick decent burst: because everybody else is already doing it, so being the only class unable to do it leaves it at a clear disadvantage.

Yesterday I was in a mini in which my group didn't have a healer and 5 out of 6 people in the opposing team were high dps, high burst classes: 2 sins, one hox, one demo, one ranger. As soon as even just 2 of them focused me I consistently went down in a timeframe between 5 and 10 seconds, and, let's not forget, this is on a pvp 10 toon, max AA, pvp t3 armor, using the "tanky" build with Unbreakable. Didn't help that between the demo and the 2 sins, with their auto-stacking debuffs, they could reduce me to essentially naked status for elemental / spiritual / physical damage within the first 3 seconds of any engagement.
Tell me how you're supposed to stack Blood Rage / Devastation in conditions like these. Tell me how you even survive long enough to use the SB + Clobber + Decap sequence when you're in these conditions. Tell me why it's ok for those other classes to burn me down 100%-0% in 5-10 seconds flat (some of them while comfortably sitting half a map away) but if I do it I'm OP and should be nerfed. Tell me where's my "amazing" survivability please, because sure as hell yesterday it wasn't anywhere to be found. I barely managed to get even in kdr (15/13) and that's while having the highest kill count in the mini and being on the *WINNING* team, mostly because our DT knew how to play and they didn't have a soldier to carry their flag.

As for "precursors should already be up", which I'm assuming you mean Reverse Swing: how do you have it "already up" every time you start a new fight? This alone is a pretty huge limitation since it means you can't frontload your burst... unlike the others, who can and WILL do it. Besides, despite what Viroku claims, Reverse Swing alone doesn't push Decap anywhere near the 4k *average* range, since it's just a +36% weapon damage buff. You need much stronger buffs to consistently achieve those numbers, and all of them are either on long CDs, depending on very specific conditions, or both. The one exception being Haste, which I already pointed out and suggested how to solve, not to mention the Haste + Decap build is just a trolling one.

[Usedtissue]

That's why the barb needs a way of doing a quick decent burst: because everybody else is already doing it, so being the only class unable to do it leaves it at a clear disadvantage.

Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right. Why don't we work to eliminate these stupid easy quick burst abilities to bring all classes back in line to their original images instead of saying "we need it because they have it".

[MagnusLL]

Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right. Why don't we work to eliminate these stupid easy quick burst abilities to bring all classes back in line to their original images instead of saying "we need it because they have it".

Because you and everybody else who's complaining about Decap are not asking for this. You're asking to nerf the barb and ONLY the barb.

And you know as well as me that a general revamp of every class is completely unrealistic given AoC's current resources.

[viroku]

http://www.truimagz.com/host/viroku/...picture147.png
From today with just staggering blow buf on. Thank you very much for your attention, Im sorry to see that some people just want something unmissable with big burst and there is just no more point in arguing.
Im just average pvper, not some pro and thing they can do with barb nowdays is just scary.

[MagnusLL]

http://www.truimagz.com/host/viroku/...picture147.png
From today with just staggering blow buf on. Thank you very much for your attention, Im sorry to see that some people just want something unmissable with big burst and there is just no more point in arguing.
Im just average pvper, not some pro and thing they can do with barb nowdays is just scary.

Usual trick - cherry pick a particularly lucky hit and claim it always happens.

Several people have already confirmed what you can get out of an average Decap is significantly lower than 4k. Not to mention, I'm still the only one having posted overall parses - everybody else just posted screenshots or videos of isolated Decaps following those up with completely unverifiable claims about getting these kinds of hits "all the time" - whatever that's supposed to mean.

[viroku]

Usual trick - cherry pick a particularly lucky hit and claim it always happens.

Several people have already confirmed what you can get out of an average Decap is significantly lower than 4k. Not to mention, I'm still the only one having posted overall parses - everybody else just posted screenshots or videos of isolated Decaps following those up with completely unverifiable claims about getting these kinds of hits "all the time" - whatever that's supposed to mean.

In your parsing if you exclude soldiers and splash dmg decap dmg is close to average 3k. if you use staggering blow it would be that high.
Btw i see all the time numbers over 3k, every mini. Beside even if i do 4k average decap+atg its to much for barb.
Btw in this thread i posted several decaps in a row in one mini:
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthr...s-revamp/page7

[MagnusLL]

Btw in this thread i posted several decaps in a row in one mini:
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthr...s-revamp/page7

They are not in a row, and they're not in one mini. All you need to look at is the JS score to understand that.

The first 4 might be from a single JS, and if so, the first 3 are on the same target and very close to each other.

INCREDIBLY close to each other, in fact - the timer shows 23:18, 22:32, 22:12. One might wonder how comes you were able to hit the same target thrice in a row with 3 consecutive Decaps almost as soon as the CD went off. In any case, even excluding explicit manipulation, since they are all on the same target, the results might be skewed by the target being particularly squishy.

The last two are from a different JS, and quite apart from each other (JS score is 1289 for the first, 460 for the second).