Sillyness of Decap+ATG

[Chaman-bourru]

@Maelkjar; you should watch Cozzano's vids again... still looks much slower than now in my opinion.
Regarding CCs i agree with you, i think sprint revamp completely destroyed the previous balance. Not sure if it's better now than back then, we just got use to it.

Combo skipping wise, i liked it because getting rooted for 1/2 sec after each combo denied you the possibility to fight against a more numerous team. But i prefer the concept we have now where dealing damage is a risk you take. You have to chose between movement and damage. Rather than having it all. Sometimes you can/have to finish your combo, sometimes you need to move to avoid damage. It's coherent with mage gameplay

[neutrinoide]

Minis are not 1v1, and even in 1v1 you can reach 160% extra weapon dmg and even higher if thirst stacks. But only haste+staggering which you can have once a minute is more than enough.
In mini games you can easily have 6 enemies around you and 5 friendlies and thats huuuge boost.

Well if you read my questions in my first comment you will see that it is exactly what I was asking about. Then you come in and change the goal post again.

[viroku]

Well if you read my questions in my first comment you will see that it is exactly what I was asking about. Then you come in and change the goal post again.

You said that 1v1 should not be the problem i showed you it would. Just staggering and knock are enough to make decap and atg hit a lot, and that is something you can easily do 1v1.

[MagnusLL]

You said that 1v1 should not be the problem i showed you it would. Just staggering and knock are enough to make decap and atg hit a lot, and that is something you can easily do 1v1.

But that sequence is not an easy and quick one button click anymore, isn't it? It takes time and preparation.
What would be the "correct" amount of average damage for something like that?
2k?
1k?
100 hp?
Giving back health to your enemy?

[viroku]

But that sequence is not an easy and quick one button click anymore, isn't it? It takes time and preparation.
What would be the "correct" amount of average damage for something like that?
2k?
1k?
100 hp?
Giving back health to your enemy?

This is not quick? lol.
You can have and should have staggering running non stop, knock is super fast by itself. You call that preparation?
Btw i will knock you land staggering blow I and hit you decap and atg before you can do anything

[MagnusLL]

This is not quick? lol.
You can have and should have staggering running non stop, knock is super fast by itself. You call that preparation?
Btw i will knock you land staggering blow I and hit you decap and atg before you can do anything

Having to buff Decap (or AtG or both) executing two previous combos is "quick"?

What do you call a ranger's Penetrating Shot? Or LB + advantage?
A sin's bomb + DWW?
A necro's Ice Strike + Chill?
A demo's three instant nukes?
Any single DT's combo buffed by VoM's crit damage buff?

How do all these examples require longer preparation than SB + Clobber + Decap? How do all these examples hit for less average damage when performed by a pvp level 10 toon with max gear and AA of the respective class?

Why are you complaining so much about Decap being too easy because "you just hit one button and do damage" when there's 5 whole classes in AoC (PoM, ToS, Necro, Demo and Ranger) based on that very same concept for ALL their abilities, not just one? And they are all ranged to boot?

If having to prebuff with two full combos to get decent results out of the highest possible burst abilities is "too quick and too easy" for the barbarian class, what do you think would be the appropriate minimum amount of time needed to achieve that burst for the class?
How would it compare with the damage level and speed of other classes' bursts?
How would you survive in the meantime (since at this point we're speaking about at least 6+ seconds to execute the whole sequence) on a light armor melee class with no bubbles?

[viroku]

Having to buff Decap (or AtG or both) executing two previous combos is "quick"?

What do you call a ranger's Penetrating Shot? Or LB + advantage?
A sin's bomb + DWW?
A necro's Ice Strike + Chill?
A demo's three instant nukes?
Any single DT's combo buffed by VoM's crit damage buff?

How do all these examples require longer preparation than SB + Clobber + Decap? How do all these examples hit for less average damage when performed by a pvp level 10 toon with max gear and AA of the respective class?

Why are you complaining so much about Decap being too easy because "you just hit one button and do damage" when there's 5 whole classes in AoC (PoM, ToS, Necro, Demo and Ranger) based on that very same concept for ALL their abilities, not just one? And they are all ranged to boot?

If having to prebuff with two full combos to get decent results out of the highest possible burst abilities is "too quick and too easy" for the barbarian class, what do you think would be the appropriate minimum amount of time needed to achieve that burst for the class?
How would it compare with the damage level and speed of other classes' bursts?
How would you survive in the meantime (since at this point we're speaking about at least 6+ seconds to execute the whole sequence) on a light armor melee class with no bubbles?

You are really clueless or just want to defend something that is clearly OP.
First of all necro ice strike+chill also needs preparation you know, need to land pd and ftw at least, one dot needs to crit to gain instant ice strike, and unless you are in sw, which is another 10 sec, dmg is not that uber unless it crits, and it dont really crit as much as decap. And btw unlike barb necro is such easy kill.
Secondly sin bomb is sh$t, it is not instant and usually dont hit that strong (sds+face stab is where the cookie is), and unlike barb is easy kill.
DT, well they can hit very strong for sure but cant remember when i was hit for 6k-8k from dt, and it also needs preparation, you know to stack vom.
Demo instants are surely annoying but again unlike barb its squishy and never been hit from demo instants for as much dmg as i can do with barb.
Ranger is retarded class that needs revamp so wont go much there except to say that is squishier than barb.

Now that knock+sb+decap/atg is very easy to do but that is just one opiton, you can still just come to someone and hit decap+atg and deal 4k+, or use haste to buff it more.
And what do you mean how will i survive for 6 seconds while i execute it? For love of god your target is knocked.

Zerker barb have enough dmg through butchers, upheaval, staggering blow and stunning punch. Hybrid or reaver barb also have great amount of dmg. Dont see much point into giving class that has good survival and ccs, anti cc this big and fast burst. Barb is not sin

[CueQue]

I don't think we're playing the same game here. Sure 5k is over the top, but some type of burst is nessecary. A few minis on my sin yesturday revealed how retarded the class actually is. After missing both kb, gc and sds because of latency, i used dww and gb to kill a very skilled barb that was clearly a much player than me.

This is acceptable, while it's not for barbs? Sure the sin duscussion might have died out by now, but why is such damage okey for you?

Also, NEVER been oneshotted yet by a barb. Still waiting.

[MagnusLL]

Now that knock+sb+decap/atg is very easy to do but that is just one opiton, you can still just come to someone and hit decap+atg and deal 4k+, or use haste to buff it more.
And what do you mean how will i survive for 6 seconds while i execute it? For love of god your target is knocked.

Zerker barb have enough dmg through butchers, upheaval, staggering blow and stunning punch. Hybrid or reaver barb also have great amount of dmg. Dont see much point into giving class that has good survival and ccs, anti cc this big and fast burst. Barb is not sin

You're once again conflating every single possible barb advantage in one non-existent build.

If you've Upheaval, you don't have AtG. So the 4k burst is already not there anymore.
If you DO use AtG, then Upheaval is gone. You're forced to follow up with high rank Butchers which have a long execution time and hit for shitty damage if they don't crit and are unbuffed. And they will be in your scenarios, since your working hypothesis is to always reserve the buffs for the Decap/AtG burst.

If you've Reverse Swing + Decap + AtG + Haste you can't have anti-CC except EB. Or at most, if you also want to get Escape Artist, you'd need a spec similar to this:

http://goo.gl/qiFqfB

which is lacking Scatter Foes, the whole Unbreakable line, Hammer and Anvil (= shitty damage on SB), less than maximum points in either EoM or AM or both, or giving up Swarm Fighter. Basically a one trick pony.

As for the examples I posted, those were just that, examples. I could provide more for the other classes. The point was that any class can reach this level of burst (and higher) in the proper conditions, especially once you factor in a several-seconds prebuff phase. So I don't see why you complain if a barbarian can reach these levels (and how is this a trivial one-click burst if you need to prepare for it with two previous combos beforehand) but you're fine with any other class doing it.
You are also conveniently forgetting the other advantages they have, like e.g. the ranged nature of necro-demo-ranger bursts (meaning you can prepare and apply them from a safe distance), the fact that two out of the three demo instants have a much shorter CD than Decap and they auto-apply elemental wrack so a demo can reduce barb magical mitigation levels to squishy status in the first one-tenth of a second of any fight, the fact that DT is a f...king soldier with means they have much higher levels of damage mitigation across the board etc.

You're essentially simply taking the best possible conditions/outcomes for the barb, assuming they're always happening, and ignoring how the other classes would perform in such ideal conditions.

[viroku]

I don't think we're playing the same game here. Sure 5k is over the top, but some type of burst is nessecary. A few minis on my sin yesturday revealed how retarded the class actually is. After missing both kb, gc and sds because of latency, i used dww and gb to kill a very skilled barb that was clearly a much player than me.

This is acceptable, while it's not for barbs? Sure the sin duscussion might have died out by now, but why is such damage okey for you?

Also, NEVER been oneshotted yet by a barb. Still waiting.

I highly doubted it is possible to kill barb with just dww and gb, but im not here discussing sins. I have sin but hox and barb are my favorite classes so i will mostly post about them. I can link you many screenshots of my t1 barb doing close to 4k or above decaps, if you think that is alright for t1 gear, than o.k.

@Magnus i said: zerker barb have enough dmg through..... This was ment clasic zerker before this revamp not decap/atg.
You said that other classes can reach this burst if not higher, well in t1 gear i did plenty of time 7k-8k dmg in sec, even stole kills from sin on same targets many times.

Im trying now more clasic build with decap/atg. not pulling numbers that high often as before but i have all anti cc and still dealing great dmg.
I dont get it why you defend this feat now. Before this buf barbs were doing fine in zerker build using either upheaval+ww or ATG. They were very strong class

Btw mate i play every class at 80 in pvp except tos (not much pom though) so i know what can they do.
You want to play tankier class with upheaval and ww and still want 1 click button that with your gear on clothies is averaging close to 3k. Basically you want it all