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Thread: Stall vs. Counterweight(S&B)

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgeball View Post
    If you are playing against a skilled DT, then stall doesnt serve you any good in the long term because you need to be hit for stall to build agro. Even if you goad, FE, CoH, irritate, ( any other hate taunt) the DT will get agro back very soon after. Might as well go for the better dps option of counterweight/ champion spirit. Stall is really only meant for solo tanking, and supreme burst agro of (10-20 secs).
    Really? But this guy Schou, the greatest Guard to ever play the game said, counterweight is inferior to stall and regular combos.

  2. #12

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    Resurrecting this thread, does anyone know which is the better aggro generator ?
    Personally I feel Stall generates more aggro, but I haven't done a proper test. I thought CW would be better for aggro swapping, but in practice I don't see any difference between CW and Overreach.
    Kaleeh PoM - Resolved Guard - Reducia Sin

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by redpooo View Post
    Resurrecting this thread, does anyone know which is the better aggro generator ?
    Personally I feel Stall generates more aggro, but I haven't done a proper test. I thought CW would be better for aggro swapping, but in practice I don't see any difference between CW and Overreach.
    Its very situational, and there isnt 1 answer. But I can try to describe which scenarios is best.


    Stall the advance is generating a big burst of threat when you retaliate damage from the foe. Its way better then Counterweight when you want to lock aggro on you early. OR! if you are solotanking a hardhitting boss and you need the survivability, its superb to use along with strike and guard when bosses go enrage for example.

    Counterweight generates more damage and therefor higher aggro then overreach. + you will be able to trigger Reckoning after a successfull combo. So if you are co-tanking a boss where aggroswitching is needed, then you want Counterweight for that little extra boost in aggro compared to using overreaches, since you dont want to use Stall the advance in that scenario anyway. (cos of the aggrolock risk)
    Last edited by magnum92; 1st February 2017 at 11:59.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  4. #14

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    But from a purely theoretical perspective, would you say Stall or Counterweight generates more aggro ?
    Kaleeh PoM - Resolved Guard - Reducia Sin

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by redpooo View Post
    But from a purely theoretical perspective, would you say Stall or Counterweight generates more aggro ?
    It depends. If you want to be an egoistic ****** then you go sta and use it as soon as possible to **** off other guards on the same boss. If you want to actually cooperate with another tank then you go with counterweight.

    It all depends how you want to use it and where you want to use it.
    Dont have aggro? STA wont do ****.
    Have aggro? Then maybe you dont need STA to build more aggro?
    Fass
    Professional northmen slayer of saga
    {Circle of Eternity}

  6. #16

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    Ok here's a scenario that will hopefully make my question clearer.

    Let's assume I need to solo tank a boss. Survival is not an issue, the boss does very little damage. The fight is going to be pretty lengthy, say 10 minutes. What I need is to maximize my aggro over the whole fight so that dpsers don't pull.
    Should I use Stall or Counterweight in order to maximize aggro ?
    Kaleeh PoM - Resolved Guard - Reducia Sin

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by redpooo View Post
    Ok here's a scenario that will hopefully make my question clearer.

    Let's assume I need to solo tank a boss. Survival is not an issue, the boss does very little damage. The fight is going to be pretty lengthy, say 10 minutes. What I need is to maximize my aggro over the whole fight so that dpsers don't pull.
    Should I use Stall or Counterweight in order to maximize aggro ?
    Its very hard to calculate. What u want to think about is this -> Stall have a CD, i cant remember exactly how long it is now. But lets say its 1m45s. So is the extra damage u get from Counterweight + Reckoning (compared to normal usage of overreach) during 1m45s higher then the total threat of one use of stall the advance. And that is very hard to calculate. But I dont think my counterweight play would catch up with my stall play if i locked it with stall from the start (sadly), It would be more interesting if it was like this.
    Last edited by magnum92; 7th February 2017 at 15:13.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    So is the extra damage u get from Counterweight + Reckoning (compared to normal usage of overreach) during 1m45s higher then the total threat of one use of stall the advance. And that is very hard to calculate.
    Exactly, this is why I'm asking if anyone has an idea

    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    But I dont think my counterweight play would catch up with my stall play if i locked it with stall from the start (sadly), It would be more interesting if it was like this.
    Do you say that because of the retributive damage from Cunning Deflection + Counterstrike (if physical) (+ Guard ?) you get while having aggro ? Or that even overlooking this, Stall has an edge over Counterweight ?
    Kaleeh PoM - Resolved Guard - Reducia Sin

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by redpooo View Post
    Exactly, this is why I'm asking if anyone has an idea



    Do you say that because of the retributive damage from Cunning Deflection + Counterstrike (if physical) (+ Guard ?) you get while having aggro ? Or that even overlooking this, Stall has an edge over Counterweight ?
    Taking everything you do when you play normally into consideration, but again, this is very hard to calculate, since stall always (afaik) get the same aggro outcome from the extra threat, while you can be incredibly lucky with counterweight, landing crit-streaks, and now with t6 gear + rings and gems, u can get up to 26% innate hate, that scales nicely with the xtra damage u get from counterweight, so... its impossible for a normal player to answer.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  10. #20

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    Difference is counterweight is a constant increase while STA is not. There is a possibility in the long run counterweight will be better. As you can see in the chart below, first 5 seconds STA have a huge headstart but over 10 minutes it evens out.
    http://i.imgur.com/RCpngGh.png

    I dont know exact numbers but this is how it works, sta provides higher bursts every 105th seconds and counterweight have the potetional to always be the same. Picture is only for illustration since I dont know exact values.
    Fass
    Professional northmen slayer of saga
    {Circle of Eternity}

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