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Thread: Assassin Daggers Setup

  1. #1

    Default Assassin Daggers Setup

    Assuming you can choose between any dagger in game (which unfortunately is not yet my case ), which one you consider best dagger setup (main hand + offhand) for PvP?

    I consider these ones best daggers in game:

    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...e_of_dagon.jpg
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...tumn_night.jpg
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo...lords_dirk.jpg
    http://static.is-better-than.tv/armo..._afterlife.jpg

    How would you mix them? Which combination is best for PvP, and what about PvE?

    And another question, what gem for Spine of Dagon? Is Bel's Mirth really worth?
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  2. #2

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    Shiv main hand
    Ell of torment off hand

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chass- View Post
    Shiv main hand
    Ell of torment off hand
    Thx.

    I understand why Ell of Torment as offhand, but I'm trying to get spine as main hand cause I don't have shiv.
    So is bel's mirth any good for spine? Or would combat rating gem be better? For PvP I mean.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  4. #4

    Default

    Bels mirth works on both ell and spine

  5. #5

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    they need to nerf pve weps
    40k kills
    [Deathbyheals]: but you'd get face f*cked in 2 seconds if you didnt have all the cheats
    [** a 'The Law' insider**]: actually they(the law) flame u the most[**a The Law' insider**]: the y(the law) say u hack like a bitch
    [Group] [Aoccompanion]: oh no its hacker bowless
    [Hotranger]: i heard you were a cheater
    [Chriscause]: Sinful nice speedhack

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmpom View Post
    they need to nerf pve weps
    What for?

    PvP daggers are currently equal to pve weapons:

    T3 PVP:

    98.25 DPS
    +200 Health
    +180 Stamina
    +4.5 Natural Stamina Regen
    +3.75 OOC Health Regen
    +13.5 OOC Stamina Regen
    +32.5 Evade Rating
    +50 Critical Rating
    +60 Critical Damage Rating
    +41 PvP Hit Rating

    T4 PVE

    98.41 DPS
    +200 Stamina
    +5 Natural Stamina Regen
    +15 OOC Stamina Regen
    +50 Evade Rating
    +50 Hit Rating
    +61 Critical Rating
    +73 Critical Damage Rating

    In current set up Dagon's Spine is just a gimmick

    Dragons Spine T3 PVE crafted (fully gemmed http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Z5JmKHrcO...ScreenClip.png)

    88.08 DPS +3.83 DPS = 91,91 DPS
    +55 Critical Rating
    +116 Critical Damage Rating
    +55 Offhand Rating
    + 41 fatality rating

    As you can see T4 and T3 PVP are pretty much the same with the exception that T4 gives more critical and T3 PVP gives more HP anr HP regen. Dagons Spine is far behind and Bel's Mirth proc doesn't go off enough to justify rather substantial DPS trade off (Bel's Mirth is designed to be a DPS boost for sustained damage being dealt in raid raid environment).

    My suggestion is: Get PVP T3 for PVP.

    The damage and criticals difference between full T3 pvp and T4 PVE is rather small and the sheer survivality of T3 PVP +protection and +HP buffs outclasses PVE gear by far. Extra 50 constitution that you get from 2 x pvp daggers complements whole PVP set and thus I advise not to mix it with PVE gear.
    Last edited by Slith; 2nd October 2014 at 07:22.
    Retired

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slith View Post
    What for?

    PvP daggers are currently equal to pve weapons:

    T3 PVP:

    98.25 DPS
    +200 Health
    +180 Stamina
    +4.5 Natural Stamina Regen
    +3.75 OOC Health Regen
    +13.5 OOC Stamina Regen
    +32.5 Evade Rating
    +50 Critical Rating
    +60 Critical Damage Rating
    +41 PvP Hit Rating

    T4 PVE

    98.41 DPS
    +200 Stamina
    +5 Natural Stamina Regen
    +15 OOC Stamina Regen
    +50 Evade Rating
    +50 Hit Rating
    +61 Critical Rating
    +73 Critical Damage Rating

    In current set up Dagon's Spine is just a gimmick

    Dragons Spine T3 PVE crafted (fully gemmed http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Z5JmKHrcO...ScreenClip.png)

    88.08 DPS +3.83 DPS = 91,91 DPS
    +55 Critical Rating
    +116 Critical Damage Rating
    +55 Offhand Rating
    + 41 fatality rating

    As you can see T4 and T3 PVP are pretty much the same with the exception that T4 gives more critical and T3 PVP gives more HP anr HP regen. Dagons Spine is far behind and Bel's Mirth proc doesn't go off enough to justify rather substantial DPS trade off (Bel's Mirth is designed to be a DPS boost for sustained damage being dealt in raid raid environment).

    My suggestion is: Get PVP T3 for PVP.

    The damage and criticals difference between full T3 pvp and T4 PVE is rather small and the sheer survivality of T3 PVP +protection and +HP buffs outclasses PVE gear by far. Extra 50 constitution that you get from 2 x pvp daggers complements whole PVP set and thus I advise not to mix it with PVE gear.
    In part I agree and in part I disagree.
    I agree that full PvP gear is the way to go at the moment for sin (I even prefer the PvP T2 set to PvE T4), and that PvP T3 dagger is really good and pretty much quite as good as T4 entity dagger.

    What I don't like in your post is that you stright summed Weapon Damage and Combat Rating, while Weapon Damage (only for main hand dagger ofc) is far more important, since you should count *at least* the +190% wep damage from feat tree (if you don't want to consider the AA and the many +% weapon damage from Rune of Aggression, Demo pets etc).

    In the end PvP T3 dagger is great, but probably T4 for main hand is still a tiny little bit better in main hand imo (if you don't mind the Const loss ofc).

    Another thing I disagree is what you wrote about Bel's Mirth.
    I haven't had the opportunity yet to test it in PvE on spine (I got it 3 days ago), but I have tested spine in PvP a bit last days (though with crappy conn because of both my provider and the damn world boss), and I played a lot with bel's mirth on ibis in PvE in the past.
    Imo Bel's Mirth is far more useful for PvP than PvE.
    We could say that it works on both, but definitely "I feel it" in PvP.

    So yeah, T4 PvE and PvP T3 daggers are great (and I hadn't yet the opportunity to test them), but tbh spine is not really a gimmick. Quite the opposite, still a great main hand dagger imo. Maybe not worth the craft if having already T4 or the new T3.5 for main hand, but still great.
    Last edited by Korando-AoC; 2nd October 2014 at 12:00.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  8. #8

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    Btw, anyone tested if sin combos / miasmas scale with Magic Damage and Magic Damage (unholy)?

    And if they scale, how much compared to Combat Rating?

    I'm too lazy to test it by myself, andI need to know to really understand how much Ell is good as offhand (the Crit, Protection etc are already great ofc).
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  9. #9

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    There is no comparison between Bel on Ibis and Bel of Dagon Spine. Dark Templar play style is to stand in the middle of the fray and smack everyone with tons of AOE and procs. Bel will proc and you will be able to take full advantage of it.

    Assassin, even fully geared and maxed out on AA (such as mine), can never stick around in group pvp for more than couple of seconds or he will be chowed down. Typical pvp rotation with "hit and run" play style is one GC + SS, SDS + FS and DWW if there is a enough time and high chance of kill. Those are 3 hits. Furthermore the real benefit of Bels for assassin comes from taking advantage of Detonation and DWW. Since GC + SS is a typical opener (as it should since SS debuffs target against unholy damage) unless you score that sweet Bel's proc on opener you are boned. On top of that you also have to be lucky enough to have the Bel proc on right target. It doesn't help you even a tiny bit if you get Bel while rolling over some pvp lvl 2 Demo which you would kill anyway with ease (in such case Bel is just a gross overkill).

    So to sum it up: you need right target (preferably high pvp level, well geared tank), Bel proc in right moment (preferably on GC opener) and stay alive/not to be CCed long enough to take advantage of small time window that comes with Bel.

    Dagon Spine was pretty amazing when it was a great weapon on it's own, Bel Mirth was just an icing on a cake.

    Right now DS have fallen behind in terms of raw power and justifing lowering your DPS for Bel proc along is gimmick.

    Meanwhile you could be scoring high, constant and reliable damage with 2 x PVP daggers instead hoping for a very situational proc.

    If we are talking about fully geared characters and optimization for PVP then DS can't take on the competitiors: T4 or Pvp T3
    Retired

  10. #10

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    If / when one day I'll get PvE T4 or PvP T3 I'll let you know my opinion .

    So far I just noticed a nice improvement moving from T4 crappiest dagger (well that's not crappy aswell, but to make it clear) to spine and I still kind "feel" when Bel's Mirth proc.
    Maybe I'm just happy cause I got spine (Awakening of EVO <3).. I'll try to test it more (wtb for free someone who works for me while I stay at home plaging AoC, and a better internet provider aswell.. 200 ms with spikes on sin is painful :/).

    EDIT: I was rereading gour post.. Come on m8 you don't need a good geared tank to feel bel's mirth effect. Even Hoxes (wait.. especially hoxes ) nowdays go around with 40% protection.
    Bel's Mirth bypass 38,25% prot.. I'd say you feel it vs any PvP geared toon.
    Last edited by Korando-AoC; 2nd October 2014 at 12:31.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

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