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Thread: Dying guilds

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by netsike View Post
    idiots, idiots everywhere
    That's gotta be another hardship new guilds have to face, which I hadn't thought of until now. Most of the nicer people are either already long gone or are in existing guilds. So you get the types of chuckle****s you describe rather than real people. Your guild is likely better off without those though. There's nothing to do about that but carry on, eventually you'll get lucky and find good members.

    Pug raiding, as a general rule, is a fool's errand. I did a whole lot of it back in the day and seen all you describe and more (though I enjoy a good schadenfreude so I still had my amusement). That's why I recommended you forget about raiding and focus on making a nice atmosphere in guild. If you really really want to raid without at least 20 members (anything less and you risk suffering from shitty randoms), you should ally with another guild. Leading pug raids is just not worth the bother of dealing with the detritus.

    There's also the fact that raiding is almost totally superfluous, especially now that world bosses are a thing. Random 80 gear is more than enough to get you started in Khitai normals and Khitai blues are good enough to do Khitai godslayers and Khitai pinks are enough get started on T4, T4 gear is completely unnecessary for anything and is, in fact, overpowered crap that ruined everything forever.
    Of course, doing the progression properly requires one to be a human being who wants to play a game for entertainment, instead of some freak of evolution magpie that somehow grew opposable thumbs.

    So, next time some chuckle**** asks if you raid T4, you can tell him no because there's no reason to, except being a lootwhore, in which case you should go play Diablo you dumb donkey.

  2. #82

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    To hell with raiding. Get a good set of basic PvP gear and go kill the idiots in mini-games or during the PvP event week (once a month.) Other players are far less predictable than boring-ass mobs and much more satisfying to kill. You can get a small group of allies to go farm Shrines of Bori regularly. Folks will occasionally go out there to try to pick off low PvP level players, but if your fellow rock-pounders are smart about it, you can call in higher PvP level friends to wipe the floor with the would-be griefers while you and your buddies continue farming on. I'm usually on Finniuss (my ToS) or Finriuss (my Bear,) and I love going out to "protect the noobs" and do some open-world PvP.

    In just a few weeks of rock-pounding, for 2-3 hour each night, you can hit PvP level 5 and have a competitive set of gear. Also, you can acquire some high quality PvP gear in the in-game store if you have some extra cashflow, IRL. Trust me, it's a lot more fun to kill the gear-greedy T4 PvE asshats who attempt to PvP on Crom than it is to have to go dungeon crawling with the same asshats.
    "Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." --Robert E. Howard

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by netsike View Post

    To be honest, I don't know why Funcom changed the raiding progression system. For me it's so obvious, that everyone should take all the steps of raiding, that means as long as you didn't kill all the bosses in T1, you can't go to T2 and so on. It would make the lazy people to learn some tactics and encounter mechanics. IMO it's unacceptable, that a DT with full khitai gear doesn't know how to turn Vistrix - a sin who has no idea about the Khitai gears, but wants to go to T4 - people have no clue about their mana drain abilities when it's about to fight Louhi and I could write a lot of examples. Did anyone think about it?
    This was the biggest single mistake funcom ever made concerning raids. It has caused no end to problems. Reverting it would solve so many problems.

  4. #84

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    I find no reason for folks to do T1/T2, it doesn't teach them raid role or how to play, the people who want to learn, read up, talk to people and develop as a player. In order for folks to really learn their toons K6 unchained and the harder K6 will help a lot more than T1/T2. ONLY TANKS are really vital in T1/T2. Semi decent heals and that's all you need, no one is going to wipe the raid by their action, they may die, but the boss will still go down. T3 is not forgiving so folk DO have to know raid role, whether its mana burn, don't spread the miasma, CC's, heals. ONE person can wipe the raid very easily on blood draw, miasma, kiting Hallowed knight, ect ect. K6 trains folks to move, to use CC's and AA's. To tank, to heal, and their role in a group which I believe helps a player much more when they get into T3 than being carried in T1/T2 raids.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarspice View Post
    I find no reason for folks to do T1/T2, it doesn't teach them raid role or how to play, the people who want to learn, read up, talk to people and develop as a player. In order for folks to really learn their toons K6 unchained and the harder K6 will help a lot more than T1/T2. ONLY TANKS are really vital in T1/T2. Semi decent heals and that's all you need, no one is going to wipe the raid by their action, they may die, but the boss will still go down. T3 is not forgiving so folk DO have to know raid role, whether its mana burn, don't spread the miasma, CC's, heals. ONE person can wipe the raid very easily on blood draw, miasma, kiting Hallowed knight, ect ect. K6 trains folks to move, to use CC's and AA's. To tank, to heal, and their role in a group which I believe helps a player much more when they get into T3 than being carried in T1/T2 raids.
    I disagree that T1/T2 have no purpose, and that you can do K6 and then T3 without having ever raided before. AoC was the first game I raided in, and to me, having very large groups coordinated to doing different tasks is a lot different than doing K6 where each player has a role to do but can immediately see what everyone else is doing. The first time I did Wing 1, I had no idea what people were meaning by "clicking the balls" and in Vistrix I didn't know what "bane in, bane in!" meant for at least the first two runs. But learning these aspects helped me to better appreciate raid tactics as a whole. It's not that T1/T2 can't teach valuable things that are important in T3, it's just that experienced players are already doing these valuable things and so new raiders come away from the raid not learning the lessons that are there to be learned. This is ok to a certain extent. Raids are large for a reason. But learning how vital you are to the success of a raid by being on time with a Bane in Vistrix is a valuable lesson that I think will help a raider to appreciate being in a key raid role in later tiers, even if the mechanic is simple.

    But there are K6 where dps can't wipe the group even if they wanted to, so that is not much different from T1/T2. I've chilled on the ground, dead, in Caverns of Malice or Necropolis and group just carried my sorry ass for dying to mobs or not getting out of the AoE pulse of the pillars. And in a good group I don't know how you can die in Palace of Yun Rau as dps.

    Really, nothing can truly prepare player for T3 except doing T3. I did T1/T2 and had done the dps role in HoC and Yag Loop and Yun Rau and Warmonk Monastery, and T3 was still a confusing mess to me. Maybe it was the guilds I raided with. But in my limited experience I don't know of anything else where the dps is thrust into the role of facing down a boss like Hollow Knight.

  6. #86

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    Every single fight and strat for T3 is on the web, in forums, blogs, Utube, and I have scripts for every fight if you want them. I can name several hard mode k6 that teaches you to check for debuff, to move, to kite, ect. If you really look at some of those K6 they are mini fights for T3. BUT nothing beats doing your homework, learning how to play your toon from those you consider good, the idea of training raid leaders is so they would know how to call these fights, how to set up groups, how to explain the strats and advise folks of their raid role. BUT you have no business doing louie if your a mana burn class and you don't have a mana burn build. If you don't know how to use your momentum stuns on keeper adds, if you don't understand how vital all your cc's are. If you can't tank or don't understand how to heal. You have no business trying to be in T3 raiding if you have no desire to learn and wiliness to wipe while others learn. We used to tell folks when they mess up in T3/T4..."that's t1 ****" meaning your don't know jack and you have to make yourself ready for t3/t4.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylis View Post
    This was the biggest single mistake funcom ever made concerning raids. It has caused no end to problems. Reverting it would solve so many problems.
    This is absolutly wrong, people were carried through that content, it never helped them to play their class better. Such a waste of time. I'm glad they removed it.

    Ask to Wildstars players if putting high attunements barrers entry to raids helps the game.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bibik View Post
    This is absolutly wrong, people were carried through that content, it never helped them to play their class better. Such a waste of time. I'm glad they removed it.

    Ask to Wildstars players if putting high attunements barrers entry to raids helps the game.
    All that does though, is let those players carried through, continue to be carried.

    That also means having to accept mediocrity has the norm.

    It's a catch-22. You make the raids a challenge, and those players not good enough are filtered out, or learn and come back better. Which would be fine if the game pop was massive. But it isn't. So, raids have to make do with the players available. Hence any number of raids are happening with a wide spread of players of varying ability - from bad through to amazeballs. Some, many maybe (?) who never learned how to play to an adequate level, because they never had to - they were carried. But that makes the game sound like a job. It shouldn't be.

    So I can't blame Funcom for what they did. It opened up a large block of content to people who couldn't get there. If hard progression blockers had remained, the pop would just have bled more. You would have even less players, albeit probably of better quality, but still less as those who couldn't move on just gave up. Many have anyway.

    And yes, I realize how monstrously arrogant that sounds. A balance need to be found, between challenge and access. I think AoC has had mixed success with this.
    Yangrin | Yangbear | Krem | Marsheesh | Oforawesome | Pappalegba | Yangryn
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  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by MashMash View Post

    And yes, I realize how monstrously arrogant that sounds. A balance need to be found, between challenge and access. I think AoC has had mixed success with this.
    Not arrogant at all , what you say is the truth .
    I play on fury and the number of pve interested players is very limited there .
    But the main problem is that many of them fail on the most easy things where you simply have to click one button to activate an ability . But nope , they don't do it , you explain again and wipe follows . You get the feeling then that some people will never progress and with the low population you keep on carrying those guys through every dungeon and put them into a dps role . This however creates another problem : You can't have "DPSrs" in group who have 0 responsibilities, furthermore they will most likely do very low damage because of having no clue of their class
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  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by MashMash View Post

    That also means having to accept mediocrity has the norm.
    Mediocrity has to be the norm everywhere you want more than a few people. In fact that's what mediocrity means, being average. Mediocre is not an insult being a mediocre player is what most of players can expect to become and a game should please us.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

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