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Thread: Conqueror or Dark Templar?

  1. #1

    Default Conqueror or Dark Templar?

    I am relatively new to the game, currently 'only' having a Demonologist and Herald of Xotli on Level 80, and was now thinking about trying myself at something other than a DPS class, namely a tank. WWhich brings us right to my dilemma since I do not know which class to pick. Guardian, from all the fluff, has the least appeal to me as it seems a bit blad (Guardinas reading this please forgive me). The choice between Conqueror and Dark Templar however is harder, and just playing both to 80, gear them up decently and then see for myself is not really the preferred option. Hence I am trying to gather a bit of information about both classes so I do not regret my choice after I have reached lvl 80.

    And part of this is my appeal to the general audience - you! - to chime in where would you see the main gameplay differences between Conqueror and Dark Templar tanks in the endgame, what are the key distinctions to help my decision? Do they differ much in survivability, threat generation, DPS (while tanking), ease of play or other important aspects? I have already read that the Dark Templar takes longer to gear up. There has also been mention of Talisman tanking in regard to the Dark Templars, feel free to comment on that as well. Any helpful hint is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

    Default

    In a rough comparison of the two:

    DT
    - Only magic damage dealer of the soldier classes.
    - Much, MUCH higher dps as a tanking DT than a Brute Conq, mostly due to VoM.
    - Because of the above, pretty much relies on VoM to function, and is sub-par without it.
    - I've seen tali DTs go to work as tanks on the Yag Loop and other places, and it works. High dps and still maintains aggro no problem without survivability issues. Needs some gear though to pull that off.
    - Lacking in cc if not feated, so if you want interrupts, you may want a different class. Cc consists of slow, fear, and stuns. Fear is an end-tree feat though, and the slow and stun are also cc that are in opposite trees. Without feats, I think you get one stun. That's it.
    - Has great ability to tank against magic damage dealers.
    - can be incredibly tanky with mana barrier feat, resulting in you taking magic damage instead of physical damage. However, since you also need mana to do a lot of your damage, this feat cuts both ways.
    - Zone of Gluttony feat with Vile Gluttony is one of the sexiest looking feats alive.
    - Uses damage as main way to hold aggro, which is why DT tops dps charts while tanking.
    - Damages OP.
    - Can be feated to summon a tank to tank for you, if you feel lazy. Get back to work!

    Conq
    - In-combat rez. Only class that can do it.
    - Has a lot of nice group buffs that can be tuned to fit a variety of situations. Conq is always welcome on a team because of this and because of above.
    - Bubbles are very nice for a Brute Conq to have to totally ignore pockets of damage, especially physical damage. DT doesn't have bubbles that match what Conq can do.
    - To wring the most out of Conq, you need to weapon swap. Guard of Dancing Steel, two-handed combo, when feated will proc off your own attacks, with dual-wield combos proccing higher than two-hander combos. I play without a custom UI and my reactions are a bit slow, so I'm sluggish at swapping out weapons and hotbars. Partly why I don't play my Conq any more. If you can do this without missing a beat, you're golden.
    - Good amount of cc, though it's mostly knockbacks and a singular fear. Feated AoE knockback in Brute conq tree is pretty OP especially with short cast time and resets on enemy deaths, so dropping a max-stacked flame banner with AoE resetting leads to AoE damage while you remain untouchable. Good way to farm waves of mobs.
    - If you decide to eventually screw tanking and go dps, Carnage Conq is loads of fun, high dps. Has a fun little feat that lets you charge every time you kill something, so can zoom around slaughtering rabbits and other critters to move across maps.
    - Carnage conq has bleeds for days. Many days. So many days.
    - Shields are for wimps.
    - Can grow huge-ish with Lumbering Hulk feat if you want to look big and imposing for RP purposes.

  3. #3

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    I have both. Both are fun . Dts are incredibly easy to level. Just stupid easy. Seriously this class does need a nerf they are so stupidly over powered. Dts at end game are seriously gear dependant.
    Everyone has a dt and conq so you may as well too. Keep in mind that it may be hard to find groups reguardless which you pick.
    I guess if i had to do them over id take dt just because its faster to level 80.

  4. #4

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    There's a whole bunch of differences but their tanking capacities are equal, which is the only thing that really matters. Templar is more of a facerolling OP while brute is more of a hardworking OP, but they're both OP as ****.

    However templar is so incredibly, stupidly dependant on gear it's liable to transform you into a lootwhore. So you should play conq.

  5. #5

    Default

    At this point if you want the most powerful class it is hands down the Dark Templar who are basically better in every way. It should be noted however Funcom have for some time been indicating they will be putting the nerf on Void Of Madness, the particular AA that DTs get that basically skyrocket them into OP, and versions of this nerf have hit testlive before getting pulled and reconsidered.

    As far as gear goes on a very general view, DTs start at a slightly lower peg than Conqs but gain more from the gear they find and will overtake them at a certain point. However having said that it has a lot of subtleties, for instance:
    1) A DT with a Dread Shadow doesn't need any gear at all to be getting aggro with his pet tank.
    2) A DT can whack together just about any old rubbish on a pure magic fight and still be feasible. A Conq will take a very long time to get a viable magic set.
    Overall the grind for either is just as long, it is simply that you will start slightly weaker as a DT but end up significantly stronger.

    Shield and Tali tanking are both quite viable at this stage and people were Tali tanking a lot of encounters before T4 gear even came out, however these were generally the very good players who understood how it all come together and also understood when to stick with a shield. I would say that talisman tanking is incredibly boring in so far as there is negligible skill to the rotation of abilities (in fact very few abilities at all) however the DPS it produces is pretty crazy.

    Both are capable of tanking and DPSing and they probably rank #1 and #2 for overall melee DPS in the game at this point (when in a DPS build), though there is a difference in their ranking when you look at their potential and their actual DPS. Potentially DTs will be #1 DPS however in practical situations they aren't because they don't have the -hate that a Conq does in their carnage specification from cunning and the -hate banners. Either way whichever you want to play if you choose to DPS itwill be boring with an extremely limited rotation but stupidly high damage that will make other DPS classes envious. DTs can quite frequently be #1 DPS even in a tank spec however the difference here is that a Conq in a tank spec is going to be near the bottom of the DPS lists.

    All in all it depends on how soon Funcom will be nerfing VOM. If they don't and you care only about how powerful you are then play a DT. If the nerf happens then who knows.

    If you care for style then this is a subjective point and only you can answer that. Personally I picked the Conqueror before they got their last revamp because they were considered the worst (and they were at the time) tank and swatting things with a two handed weapon feels badass.

    Whichever you go for if you are a good player you can make it into a very successful character.
    Last edited by Boesch; 13th September 2014 at 07:01.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by CimmerianHoX View Post

    - Carnage conq has bleeds for days. Many days. So many days.
    This really made me laugh a lot more than it should. Well said!

    For what it's worth, both classes are a lot of fun. DT's are a lot more gear and AA dependent but, like all classes, you need gear to survive. A badly geared tank can't hold aggro in any dungeon.

    Conq
    Per the Conq forum, I've recently started playing with weapon swapping but that means I have to use a pet to draw mobs instead of shooting them at range. And I think they play a little more even just stating out at 80 compared to the AA dependent DT.

    DT
    If you have AA's when you get to 80, you can basically have VOM on timer from the day you hit 80, if you used your AA's correctly. You can keep your weapon choices to your normal melee and keep your second set for ranged pulls.

    Both classes have insane survivability but I think the big choice is, do you like shields and magic or big fricking weapons and dual wielding?
    ----
    Kalur - 80 Bear Shaman, Brunstol - 80 Dark Templar, Tallas - 80 Assassin, Gilben - 80 Conquerer, Pangert - 80 Barbarian, Xoltal - 80 Necromancer, Matzui - 80 Herald of Xolti, and a bunch of lower level alts.
    Wiccana -> Set -> Crom

  7. #7

    Default

    Also note that, while DT can both tank and dps with the same weapon (1h), conq tanks usually with 2h and does dps with dual wield (you can't dps with 2h).

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patoson View Post
    Also note that, while DT can both tank and dps with the same weapon (1h), conq tanks usually with 2h and does dps with dual wield (you can't dps with 2h).
    Not with that attitude.
    I don't make points I make dents.

  9. #9

    Default

    I'd advise to go with DT, for all the reasons stated above, but also because the power curve is so awesome to climb.

    By that i mean that on a DT, you really feel the character getting stronger and stronger and it's like it'll never stop, it's just awesome and very satisfying.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belatsunat View Post
    I am relatively new to the game, currently 'only' having a Demonologist and Herald of Xotli on Level 80, and was now thinking about trying myself at something other than a DPS class, namely a tank. WWhich brings us right to my dilemma since I do not know which class to pick. Guardian, from all the fluff, has the least appeal to me as it seems a bit blad (Guardinas reading this please forgive me). The choice between Conqueror and Dark Templar however is harder, and just playing both to 80, gear them up decently and then see for myself is not really the preferred option. Hence I am trying to gather a bit of information about both classes so I do not regret my choice after I have reached lvl 80.

    And part of this is my appeal to the general audience - you! - to chime in where would you see the main gameplay differences between Conqueror and Dark Templar tanks in the endgame, what are the key distinctions to help my decision? Do they differ much in survivability, threat generation, DPS (while tanking), ease of play or other important aspects? I have already read that the Dark Templar takes longer to gear up. There has also been mention of Talisman tanking in regard to the Dark Templars, feel free to comment on that as well. Any helpful hint is greatly appreciated.
    Well, considering you are not the most experienced player(due to 2 80s 1halfmeeleish) i would give guardian a look aswell! Yes its kinda "basic" but that isnt always bad you know. Think of it as an old car, you have what you need and nothing more. Also thoes things you have are very, very strong. Like counterweight 10% bonus crit chance and 2sec cd. Still gains fatalityes on assassins above 50%.

    As for pve also guard is the toughest! And has most h8. Last i checked thatd what you need to tank

    When it comes to DT and Conq you might see that i play conq. Yes i love the conq and i think its the best class. I will list some pros and cons below:

    DT
    Pros:
    -may deal loads of dmg(tali specc mgc armor)
    -funny ways to chain abilityes to gain Max out come
    -good cc when feated.
    -good healt regen

    Cons:
    -Many random procs that may or may not apply as you want.
    -Very slow, easy to get away from

    Conq
    Pros:
    -Can be played in very many ways due to its good AA Perks and vert different feats.
    -Can also deal alot of dmg iffeated for it(carnage<3)
    -A good arsenal of different ccs
    -Some healt regen
    -challenging and might be a bit hard for less exp players.

    Cons:
    -unlike with DT you can't have too good dps and still be tough.
    -very many conqs around so i recomand going carnage as its not too many carnage conqs.
    -because of the brute bullds OPness many players will whine about you playing an OP class even if you play as carnage. There usualy isnt a that big difference between speccs and some peeps then think the class is OP when it actually is a perk used by brute conqs(battlefield commander)

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