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Thread: Conan Movie - Iron Shadows

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaletohep View Post
    Hey, if it's bad, we don't loose anything –
    I have to disagree here. I'm pretty sure a good Conan movie is what we all want, and not only for our viewing pleasure but to kickstart the whole franchise. When you have some classless tossers like Avi Lerner producing it you just know the whole product is going down the toilet. After it did in fact go down the toilet, Avi and Co. convince the investors that it was because of lack of "brand equity". Now, everyone with a modicum of sense can distinguish "lack of brand equity" and a total bomb of a movie, but people who give out a delicate multilayered piece of art to someone who likes to blow **** up, I wouldn't be so sure.

    The bottom line is, you don't get investments for a movie solely because it has class, the right feel or even a brilliant story. At least not in Hollywood. It's hard numbers that talk. And I bet that you wouldn't get a single reply from a single Hollywood movie studio right now if you'd contact them about making a Conan movie. The reason is that they have too much proof of failure on the franchise.

    So 'when' it's bad, we do lose something, we lose credibility, and every time some shmuck ridicules our beloved character with a cheap flick, any hopes for a real Conan movie can be pushed back a good 10 years. You could argue my view overly doom and gloom and that Iron Shadows wont have an effect on the Conan franchise whatsoever, but it wont do any good I can tell you that.

    You're absolutely right about the budget though. Dallas Buyers Club is a great example of a brilliant movie made on a budget that wouldn't normally cover catering. But when you compare the people behind that and "Iron Shadows" (for crying out loud) it's like comparing Buckfast and "Chateau de Chasselas".

  2. #22

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    Good point about the "franchise" - I didn't consider the absurdity of decision making in the entertainment industry.

    I therefore reverse my previous opinion and hereby demand the movie being made a great artistical and commercial success.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  3. #23

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    And I shou'd unite in thou demands! Let's build a time machine and get Tarkovsky to make it a philosophical odyssey! Or Kieslowski? Imagine that..

    I have to admit though, purists will of course always find it difficult in popular culture. How many source material movies have you got in the "genre" that were any good, or had true respect for the source? LOTR was a well made award winning movie and a huge commercial success, but the helpless elves dying en hordes at Helm's deep sent even the regular bob into shivers of discontent. And that's just scratching the surface. Even people responsible of the source material themselves can make it into a joke if commercial reasons gets ahead of the artistic vision. I don't even need to tell you who and what I'm talking about there. I loved the new Star Trek movies for their carnival like pace and fun, the first one especially is imho a brilliant movie, but how can the perfect future be turned into petty quarrels, beer drinking and bar fights? The camp aspects in the original series that made Star Trek what it is was made by sacrificing narrative convention to accomplish the utopia. Dull? Yes in a sense, but extremely funny if you're enable to enjoy the subtlety of it.

    The only thing that comes in mind is Sin City, which is especially painful when you think of how close Rodriguez came in making the Conan reboot. I guess Sin City is the exception that proves the rule, after all the truly talented movie people are driven by a passion to create, not to recreate or mimic. But I like to believe in what Sin City proved in the sense that there is enough artistic challenge and enjoyment bringing alive something that's just perfect the way it is. And I really do feel like Conan is that good that it deserves an homage, not a version.

    But I digress, maybe Iron Shadows will be a perfect depiction of our reality-tv era "pulp". A grotesque act of breast augmentation and fist pumping. The degeneration of the perma-adolescent nature of the man. The yearn for adventures and challenge in a world of diverse beauty and steel, what can only be described as true freedom, transformed into a burden to achieve the shallowest state humanly possible, and design body lotions. I shall be ready for it armed with a protein bar, maybe indulge myself in some low carb egg-based pizza and diet coke.

  4. #24

  5. #25

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    The Oliver Stone written Conan was great, but it's really not Conan. It's based more on the pulp comic books of Frank Frazetta and mixed obscure strings of some of Howard's stories together. Valeria, for example, introduces herself as the Queen of Thieves outside the Snake Tower, which is partly based on The Elephant in the Tower, where Conan meets the King of Thieves, which is a dude, who dies to a giant spider only a few moments later after using poison to kill a tiger. Valeria is from the short story Red Nails I believe (no, not the crappy Tyranny guild), and not really wearing much of anything, nor is she really much of a fighter.

    Nothing against that version of the Conan though, to date it is the most accurate screen version portraying the time, people, and lands of Hyboria.

    I don't think the common audience today has the mental fortitude to sit through movies that actually follow works of fiction that stay to true to the original work. Conan was a metaphor for the corruption and decadence that Howard saw in his times, he actually believed that the human race was better off dying in a catastrophe and starting again that continue the way it was. He was also crazy and believed some apparition that took the form of Conan appeared above him at times and threatened to sword him if he did not complete the work.

    I don't think most people have the desire to critically think, they just want to see some huge CG landscape and a bunch of fantastic fight/action scenes, with as little meaningful dialogue as possible. If they make any Conan movie, it will be just as good as all the trash that comes out week after week. They should take a cue from Rodger Zemeckis and realize the first run through was a good as it gets, and people today do not deserve to ruin a classic by demanding a remake for today's crowd, because people demand the terrible in 2015. That's my take on the Legend of Conan.

    As for this low budget movie...it would probably be good despite low quality costuming and props, and less than ideal cinematography-the people making it will not restrain themselves by studio standards. However, it will only reach those looking for it, which means they will never make any money on it and will be extremely hard to get outside a pirate version on youtube or they sell it to Troma-like company.
    Last edited by Suctum; 1st July 2015 at 04:17.
    Doomsayer 2008

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    Valeria, for example, introduces herself as the Queen of Thieves outside the Snake Tower, which is partly based on The Elephant in the Tower
    Well, she is a *thief* - maybe she lied.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    Valeria is from the short story Red Nails I believe (no, not the crappy Tyranny guild), and not really wearing much of anything, nor is she really much of a fighter.
    Clothes:

    She was tall, full-bosomed, and large-limbed, with compact shoulders.
    Her whole figure reflected an unusual strength, without detracting
    from the femininity of her appearance. She was all woman, in spite of
    her bearing and her garments. The latter were incongruous, in view of
    her present environs. Instead of a skirt she wore short, wide-legged
    silk breeches, which ceased a hand's breadth short of her knees, and
    were upheld by a wide silken sash worn as a girdle. Flaring-topped
    boots of soft leather came almost to her knees, and a low-necked,
    wide-collared, wide-sleeved silk shirt completed her costume. On one
    shapely hip she wore a straight double-edged sword, and on the other a
    long dirk. Her unruly golden hair, cut square at her shoulders, was
    confined by a band of crimson satin.

    Fighting:

    Valeria fought beside him, her lips smiling and her eyes blazing. She
    was stronger than the average man, and far quicker and more ferocious.
    Her sword was like a living thing in her hand. Where Conan beat down
    opposition by the sheer weight and power of his blows, breaking
    spears, splitting skulls and cleaving bosoms to the breastbone,
    Valeria brought into action a finesse of swordplay that dazzled and
    bewildered her antagonists before it slew them. Again and again a
    warrior, heaving high his heavy blade, found her point in his jugular
    before he could strike. Conan, towering above the field, strode
    through the welter smiting right and left, but Valeria moved like an
    illusive phantom, constantly shifting, and thrusting and slashing as
    she shifted. Swords missed her again and again as the wielders flailed
    the empty air and died with her point in their hearts or throats, and
    her mocking laughter in their ears.


    - Red Nails, REH

    So yeah, fully clothed, very good fighter.

    Valeria from movie is a mix of Valeria and Belit, I would say she is more Belit thou.
    Last edited by Slith; 1st July 2015 at 20:53.
    Retired

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    The Oliver Stone written Conan was great, but it's really not Conan......be or they sell it to Troma-like company.
    Read the forum posts.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slith View Post
    Clothes:

    She was tall, full-bosomed, and large-limbed, with compact shoulders.
    Her whole figure reflected an unusual strength, without detracting
    from the femininity of her appearance. She was all woman, in spite of
    her bearing and her garments. The latter were incongruous, in view of
    her present environs. Instead of a skirt she wore short, wide-legged
    silk breeches, which ceased a hand's breadth short of her knees, and
    were upheld by a wide silken sash worn as a girdle. Flaring-topped
    boots of soft leather came almost to her knees, and a low-necked,
    wide-collared, wide-sleeved silk shirt completed her costume. On one
    shapely hip she wore a straight double-edged sword, and on the other a
    long dirk. Her unruly golden hair, cut square at her shoulders, was
    confined by a band of crimson satin.

    Fighting:

    Valeria fought beside him, her lips smiling and her eyes blazing. She
    was stronger than the average man, and far quicker and more ferocious.
    Her sword was like a living thing in her hand. Where Conan beat down
    opposition by the sheer weight and power of his blows, breaking
    spears, splitting skulls and cleaving bosoms to the breastbone,
    Valeria brought into action a finesse of swordplay that dazzled and
    bewildered her antagonists before it slew them. Again and again a
    warrior, heaving high his heavy blade, found her point in his jugular
    before he could strike. Conan, towering above the field, strode
    through the welter smiting right and left, but Valeria moved like an
    illusive phantom, constantly shifting, and thrusting and slashing as
    she shifted. Swords missed her again and again as the wielders flailed
    the empty air and died with her point in their hearts or throats, and
    her mocking laughter in their ears.


    - Red Nails, REH

    So yeah, fully clothed, very good fighter.

    Valeria from movie is a mix of Valeria and Belit, I would say she is more Belit thou.
    "On that altar lay Valeria, stark naked, her white flesh gleaming in shocking contrast to the glistening ebon stone."

    "The sight of Valeria's naked body added flame to the fire of his rage."

    Red Nails

    I admit, it has been years since I read the story and I only remembered the ending when she is part of the blood ceremony. I gave it a quick read today and your right, although most of the descriptive fighting once they reach the city entails Conan alone. I think I also got her mixed up with the fake priestess from The Servants of Bit-Yakin, who spends most of her time screaming and annoying Conan.
    Doomsayer 2008

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    "On that altar lay Valeria, stark naked, her white flesh gleaming in shocking contrast to the glistening ebon stone."

    "The sight of Valeria's naked body added flame to the fire of his rage."

    Red Nails

    I admit, it has been years since I read the story and I only remembered the ending when she is part of the blood ceremony. I gave it a quick read today and your right, although most of the descriptive fighting once they reach the city entails Conan alone. I think I also got her mixed up with the fake priestess from The Servants of Bit-Yakin, who spends most of her time screaming and annoying Conan.
    Oh I see where you were coming from and I think we were both right Valeria got bitch slaped by king Olmec and Tascela, but Olmec almost matched Conan in strenght and Tascela got that magic thing going.

    "Goddess! Ha!" His bark was full of angry contempt. He ignored the frantic writhings of his captive. "I thought it was strange that a princess of Alkmeenon would speak with a Corinthian accent! As soon as I'd gathered my wits I knew I'd seen you somewhere. You're Muriela, Zargheba's Corinthian dancing girl. This crescent-shaped birthmark on your hip proves it. I saw it once when Zargheba was whipping you. Goddess! Bah!" He smacked the betraying hip contemptuously and resoundingly with his open hand, and the girl yelped piteously.

    All her imperiousness had gone out of her. She was no longer a mystical figure of antiquity, but a terrified and humiliated dancing girl, such as can be bought at almost any Shemitish market place. She lifted up her voice and wept unashamedly. Her captor glared down at her with angry triumph.

    "Goddess! Ha! So you were one of the veiled women Zargheba brought to Keshia with him. Did you think you could fool me, you little idiot? A year ago I saw you in Akbitana with that swine, Zargheba, and I don't forget faces – or women's figures. I think I'll—"

    Squirming about in his grasp she threw her slender arms about his massive neck in an abandon of terror; tears coursed down her cheeks, and her sobs quivered with a note of hysteria.

    This is probably the single story where Conan is this cruel to a woman
    Retired

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