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Thread: Tribuild

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    Only ever place I find Tribuild useful is Entity and Archfiend of Gore.
    You should not need tribuild on Entity, with Flame Body I fell perfectly ok without using any protection accessory or perk and with Havoc / Conflagration build (maybe without any AA Fire protection or gear with Intelligence).

    On Archfiend you may be right, could make sense to get general Protection if you don't have enough protection from gear to keep above 50% HP after Brutal Force, to avoid the +100% hate buff (Flames Body cooldown is higher then the interval between 2 Brutal Force).
    Last edited by Korando-AoC; 17th March 2014 at 16:54.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korando-AoC View Post
    You should not need tribuild on Entity, with Flame Body I fell perfectly ok without using any protection accessory or perk and with Havoc / Conflagration build (maybe without any AA Fire protection or gear with Intelligence).

    On Archfiend you may be right, could make sense to get general Protection if you don't have enough protection from gear to keep above 50% HP after Brutal Force, to avoid the +100% hate buff (Flames Body cooldown is higher then the interval between 2 Brutal Force).
    Yes you are right. I use it on Archfiend because of the minus hate, not the protection. Somehow I most of the times manage to generate more agro than the other mages and then need the negative hate to trade Brutal Force more effectively, and also have less of a chance to break the boss off the tanks.

    On Entity I use the same build, just because I am too cheap to buy another spec just for that stupid fight. Antihate is of course a 100% waste there, but some extra magic damage adds just a wee bit to each hit, and using FoG makes mana management easier with Consume Flames, so Shock Lances would be every 30+ seconds rather than every 10-11 seconds in a Shockstrike focused rotation, thus making the eventual featpoints towards PoE not so much worth. It's shitty being a spellweaving Demonologist at Entity if you got clueless alt healers and bad luck on Demonic Payment. As you say, no need for points in general tree, but if you don't have more feat specialisations the Entity and Archfiend specs are probably the closest ones in relation to make one for both encounters.
    Last edited by Shax84; 17th March 2014 at 17:13.

  3. #13

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    Refeated my Archfiend / Entity build now. Gonna die for sure with zero mana :P

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shax84 View Post
    I think you should consider having Demonic Power and Unholy Hate feated, that would be an improvement. Anyway, as long as a Demo feats Combustion then it doesn't really matter much where the rest of the points are.

    You shouldn't underestimate the power of your pet. With Demonic Power and Pact of Earth Walking, it typically does 10-12% of total damage from a Demo.

    Personally, not much beats this build. http://is.gd/j7Q0Ic

    It's not tribuild. Only ever place I find Tribuild useful is Entity and Archfiend of Gore.
    What kind of rotations are being used in builds like this? Which nuke spell is favored? I personally like FoG for its speed (better single target dps/dps in general?), but shockstrike hits much harder generally (slower caster time offsets damage = less dps?)

    Also, maybe it's because I don't have 5/5 Ring of Fire yet, but I really am not seeing the appeal everyone places on WoF. For me in mostly BB epics and a couple BB rank 3 equivalent blues it is hitting for around 570 a tick. Could someone give some insight on this, please?

  5. #15

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    Fully ranked Ring of Fire ticks 9 times on 5 seconds channelling. Hitting every 0,5 seconds. It takes just as long to channel the spell as to cast two Shockstrikes. Given your WoF hits for 570 pr tick, I'd wager your Shockstrikes are around 3x that amount.

    Spellrotation, just go nuts on the keyboard. Bind everything to keys. Keep instants on cooldown. Use Shock Lance x5. Remember Chaotic Blast debuff, pacts and Unholy Hate.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SennH View Post
    What kind of rotations are being used in builds like this? Which nuke spell is favored? I personally like FoG for its speed (better single target dps/dps in general?), but shockstrike hits much harder generally (slower caster time offsets damage = less dps?)

    Also, maybe it's because I don't have 5/5 Ring of Fire yet, but I really am not seeing the appeal everyone places on WoF. For me in mostly BB epics and a couple BB rank 3 equivalent blues it is hitting for around 570 a tick. Could someone give some insight on this, please?
    Shockstrike fits perfectly in a WoF rotation like this: HS, Shock, Shockstrike, HS, WoF .. repeat (ofc filled with buffs - pacts, unholy hate - and eventually Bindings and Shocklance).

    In fights where I can't use WoF I generally use FoG instead of Shockstrike, since in a plain rotation (FoG or Shockstrike repeated, filled with insta casts when they are off CD) FoG hits harder (I can't chech numbers now, but at least with Amassed Flames feated FoG hits harder, at least on single target).

    Shockstrike has a bit better AoE, since you can feat 100% splash damage for both, but also Chained Shockstrike.

    Anyway, in PvE I use Shockstrike only in WoF rotation, otherwise I mostly use FoG.
    For PvP instead I prefer Shockstrike for max AoE (I feat both splash damage and chained shockstike) and since anyway in PvP it makes no sense to try to stack Ammassed Flames fire damage buffs.
    Occasionally I use FoG in PvP only when a target is running away or dieing, and the bit lower cast time can make a difference in granting a kill.

    Anyway I know that in PvE some people fills WoF rotation with 2x FoG instead of Shockstrike, and I'm curious to test this.


    About WoF, fully feated Ring of Fire really transforms WoF from (almost) useless spell to highest nuking demo spell, for both single target and AoE fights.
    WoF is limited only by range, and generally when it's possible to use it, it should be used.
    Anyway a good FoG rotation is not that far away on single target damage.

    When I get time I wanna run some proper tests and post some numbers about these rotations.
    Last edited by Korando-AoC; 18th March 2014 at 00:24.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korando-AoC View Post
    Shockstrike fits perfectly in a WoF rotation like this: HS, Shock, Shockstrike, HS, WoF .. repeat (ofc filled with buffs - pacts, unholy hate - and eventually Bindings and Shocklance).

    In fights where I can't use WoF I generally use FoG instead of Shockstrike, since in a plain rotation (FoG or Shockstrike repeated, filled with insta casts when they are off CD) FoG hits harder (I can't chech numbers now, but at least with Amassed Flames feated FoG hits harder, at least on single target).

    Shockstrike has a bit better AoE, since you can feat 100% splash damage for both, but also Chained Shockstrike.

    Anyway, in PvE I use Shockstrike only in WoF rotation, otherwise I mostly use FoG.
    For PvP instead I prefer Shockstrike for max AoE (I feat both splash damage and chained shockstike) and since anyway in PvP it makes no sense to try to stack Ammassed Flames fire damage buffs.
    Occasionally I use FoG in PvP only when a target is running away or dieing, and the bit lower cast time can make a difference in granting a kill.

    Anyway I know that in PvE some people fills WoF rotation with 2x FoG instead of Shockstrike, and I'm curious to test this.


    About WoF, fully feated Ring of Fire really transforms WoF from (almost) useless spell to highest nuking demo spell, for both single target and AoE fights.
    WoF is limited only by range, and generally when it's possible to use it, it should be used.
    Anyway a good FoG rotation is not that far away on single target damage.

    When I get time I wanna run some proper tests and post some numbers about these rotations.
    I like and want to use Amassed Flames, but with WoF as the main spell and focus of the build with FoG used, essentially, as a filler spell in between WoF and when range is needed, is feating 7 points to get Amassed Flames worth the points/frequency of use ratio? Could you provide a build that utilizes Amassed Flames?

    Plus, you say you use Shockstrike with a WoF rotation and (might) have chained shockstrike feated, so how do you have CS, AF all in the same build? Do you skip out on Pact of Earth Walking line? I'm interested to see.

    I put together a WoF build I think I'd be happy with, but can't post it right now and it, unfortunately for me, does not include AF right now.

  8. #18

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    as others have said, those points in gen are a waste... You will not notice that 72 MD...
    ===============
    Etzul - PvP 8 tos - Retired
    Etzun - pvp 10 demo
    Etzunn- pvp 9 barb
    Etzpom - PvP 3 Pom.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ETZZUL View Post
    as others have said, those points in gen are a waste... You will not notice that 72 MD...
    Simple test done with & without weapons equipped (183 md). Spellweaving, taking max dmg buff, going down from spellweave, attacking strawman. I also took care to let the Elemental Torments from Hellfire Stream and Shock cool down before attacking with next spell. Bindings rank 5 (+7,5% dmg) and RoF rank 5 (+7,5% dmg)

    First, without weapons equipped.

    Your Shockstrike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1448 electrical damage.
    Your Fires of Gehenna (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1210 fire damage.
    Your Waves of Flame (Rank 4) hits Straw Man for 592 fire damage.
    Your Bindings of the Skylord hits Straw Man for 1240 electrical damage.
    Your Shockblast (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 1415 electrical damage.
    Your Chaotic Blast hits Straw Man for 1369 fire damage.
    Your Shock (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 612 electrical damage.
    Your Hellfire Stream (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 605 fire damage.
    Your Shock Lance hits Straw Man for 629 electrical damage.
    Your Inferno of Amher (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 1165 fire damage.


    Now, doing the same with weapons equipped.

    Your Shockstrike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1546 electrical damage.
    - Shockstrike did 98 more damage. 98 / 183 = 0,535

    Your Fires of Gehenna (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1292 fire damage.
    - FoG did 82 more damage. 82 / 183 = 0,448

    Your Waves of Flame (Rank 4) hits Straw Man for 632 fire damage.
    - WoF did 40 more damage. 40 / 183 = 0,218

    Your Bindings of the Skylord hits Straw Man for 1329 electrical damage.
    - Bindings did 89 more damage. 89 / 183 = 0,486

    Your Shockblast (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 1515 electrical damage.
    - Shockblast did 100 more damage. 100 / 183 = 0,546

    Your Chaotic Blast hits Straw Man for 1466 fire damage.
    - Chaotic Blast did 97 more damage. 97 / 183 = 0,53

    Your Shock (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 654 electrical damage.
    - Shock did 42 more damage. 42 / 183 = 0,229

    Your Hellfire Stream (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 647 fire damage.
    - Hellfire Stream did 42 more damage. 42 / 183 = 0,229

    Your Shock Lance hits Straw Man for 658 electrical damage.
    - Shock Lance did 29 more damage. 29 / 183 = 0,158

    Your Inferno of Amher (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 1248 fire damage.
    - Inferno of Amher did 83 more damage. 83 / 183 = 0,453

    So... These calculations are pretty simple but you can see which spells gains most from magic damage. Since Waves of Flame has a low spell damage coefficient of 0,218 that means adding the 108,4 magic damage from Amassed Flames only gives around 23,5 extra damage per hit, but FoG gains the double, with a higher coefficient it improves each hit by 48,5 damage.

    Shockstrike has a slightly higher coefficient than FoG, because of the casting time. Shock Lance has the lowest coefficient of all spells. You still get benefits from Incinerate and Intense Heat by spamming Hellfire Stream.

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