open world pvp

[Kurt2013]

You just prove my points...because of all the "reactions" 3 out of 7 involve pvp and of them 3 all are bound to conditions not applying to everyone most of the time. And exactly these people who don't fit these conditions are the critical ones you want to get hooked and keep, because the actual "system" needs a LOT of these people to keep working and filter from.

Also again...if there is an alternative to "leaving the server" and already many ways to avoid pvp already on a PVP (!) server...why not make this avoidance AND attraction more clearly consensual? It is a game after all...

[Loaf-of-Evil]

You just prove my points...because of all the "reactions" 3 out of 7 involve pvp and of them 3 all are bound to conditions not applying to everyone most of the time. And exactly these people who don't fit these conditions are the critical ones you want to get hooked and keep, because the actual "system" needs a LOT of these people to keep working and filter from.

Also again...if there is an alternative to "leaving the server" and already many ways to avoid pvp already on a PVP (!) server...why not make this avoidance AND attraction more clearly consensual? It is a game after all...

No, you just proved my point. You want everything, including pvp, to be 100% controlled by you, no variables, pve worthy. Pvp is the most uncontrollable, unscripted, exciting thing in any game. If you do not want to be surprised, then the pve server is for you.

Nothing wrong with the pve playstyle. The "wrong" in this situation is you, a self proclaimed pver, by actions and speech here on the forum, has come into a pvp thread in a pvp section commanding pvpers to play by your demanding pve rules.

Not gonna happen. Why not enjoy the pve server and leave your game bigotry at home.

Good day.

[Kurt2013]

Out of arfuments, so you play the "you're not one of us" personal insult card?

I wonder where the bigotry lies here...by those who don't bother to read and understand or those who started and played on a pvp server till now Even if this were not so, are you seriously saying pve oriented players are not allowed to join pvp or are not allowed to point out things not going well???

Exactly that thrill and surprise is underestimated by YOU, because you fail to acknowledge, that it might be attractive by other people, who don't share your approach or are part of your precious little "pvp" world, too. If want to stay in that bordered world, do so...but don't complain about population, when you actively participate in driving all, who don't agree right away with you, off. (i do not know you, so this is a deduction from your actions and speech on the forum. forgive me, if i am wrong here)
Not everyone on the pvp servers plays in the same way...otherwise your unscripted, uncontrolled and exciting things would not exist.
I do agree btw about the attraction of pvp over pve here, i just think with such an attitude ("don't agree, go pve"), you are working towards destroying all these points. If there were a more diverse crowd on the pvp servers, we would not have a few valid builds per class only, mandatory feats/AA, pve instance farming to get mandatory gear, few big guilds only, standard attack sequences by "pros" etc. etc.. It was diverse at the start, but it was not only the pve gd responsible for the decline. Luckily not all on the pvp servers agree with you, else they would be more empty than they are now.

What for example are the pve rules i speak of???
Consequences for actions in pvp?
More player flexibility and choice?
More fun for all while doing pvp?

[Loaf-of-Evil]

Out of arfuments, so you play the "you're not one of us" card, yakity schmakity

Your first sentence explains each one of your posts, basically you do not read or pay attention.

I did not play a card or personaly insult you. I do not know you. In fact, all I know is what you post, which I explained in my last post in detail.

Get off your high horse and realize that people that want open world are different than you, and forcing your pve server mindset on them is unacceptable.

There is nothing wrng with playing on either server, but please stop your passive aggressive ranting, as it is showing you as a confused fool with entitlement written on your forehead.

Thank you.

[Kurt2013]

You accused me of bigotry. I take this as insult.
Your elaborate writing about passive aggressiveness followed by just another insult is just that...an insult.
You claim to not know me, yet you assume me a pve player even while i agreed with some (or even most) of your views about pvp.
You might be right, that most who "now" play open world share a certain view...but imo these are the remains of an initial for more diverse, motivated and populated crowd. Since i know it can work differently without the fear of loosing the pro points you mention, i can take that seriously only to a certain point.

If demanding pvp being variable, exciting, players choice and fun for all involved is a pve mindset...then there is not much to discuss between us anyway. We can argue about individual measures, their effects or wrong assumptions constructively, but not "mindsets". In no way you mention how you deduce that "pve mindset", too.
Other games have consequence systems, too. Even shooters have them...
The OP suggestion exists in other games too...and it has not been followed by complete armaggeddon of pvp there, afaik.

Good day to you, too.

[Loaf-of-Evil]

You accused me of bigotry. I take this as insult.

I was keeping in context of your posts, which was bigotry, based solely off your posts.

You instantly get upset that someone's opinion differs than you, cannot control the open world pvp, and apparently not your outbursts on a game forum either.

Open world is open world. If it does not suit you, play on pve server. Problem solved.

Fin.

[Kurt2013]

No, here you are wrong. You can neither prove any bigotry nor you are right about open world. One open world concept is not necessarily the same as another open world concept. There is more than just black and white. And AoCs concept imo is not shining on top of the working systems list.

And i must be really upset, to still try and argue with people not agreeing by trying to find out the common ground and positive points in their arguments.

Maybe that is the difference: you are content with the status quo (for whatever reason, not judging), while i am not, because i have experienced better times and concepts (when it comes to population and fun at least).

[Brazza]

No, here you are wrong. You can neither prove any bigotry nor you are right about open world. One open world concept is not necessarily the same as another open world concept. There is more than just black and white. And AoCs concept imo is not shining on top of the working systems list.

And i must be really upset, to still try and argue with people not agreeing by trying to find out the common ground and positive points in their arguments.

Maybe that is the difference: you are content with the status quo (for whatever reason, not judging), while i am not, because i have experienced better times and concepts (when it comes to population and fun at least).

u mad bro?

[Kurt2013]

u mad bro?

No, why? Are you?

[Chaman-bourru]

Uffff, from day one this discussion existed. Either by narrow minded RPers or soloplayers that want to play an MMO alone, on a PvP server, and not be bothered by anyone. Or sometimes People on PvE servers...

With high population like in 2008 to early 2010 and low means to avoid ganking (teleports, not that many quests) PvP can occur more often, but at the same you had in your guild more PvP enthousiaste that would always (!) come to help. On a low populated server like we have today, ganking is more scarce and you have lots of tools to avoid it without having to have friends anymore.

You focus on one aspect of PvP which is moronic brainless gankers who have always been a loud minority able to hurt the feelings of yet again loud minority. When i see how fast some people tend to complain i just can't take them seriously since i was there in 2008 when you had no shield of the risen, rezed at 10% and had no murder points. Indeed the solo gankers don't have much input to the game besides encouraging players to gather up in guilds and play together. Given their playstyle these players rarely bunch up in numbers because that would make them too vulnerable. They would be much more likely to attract reinforcements of the guildie they just killed. And that's not what they seek.

But no, people keep playing this game solo.

However open-world PvP goes much further than that. But it relies on spontaneity. As much as i do enjoy the events i organize now and then. They are nothing close to how fun spontanious fights are. They are heavy to organize and easy to disturb.
Spontaneity on the other hand requires nothing but to be at the right place at the right time. They are imposed yet consensual. Indeed if the fight last, it's because the players you brought war too, accepted the challenge and fought back.
You'd tell me that it's good ! That those that want to fight would go PvP mode and let the others roam in safe mode. But firstly it hinders the chances of having PvP by diminishing the potential sparks. And it lighten the bonds of guilds, PvPers not having to defend their guildies or retaliate to an agression.
More PvE focused players quest in khitai, more PvP focused players avoid doing it. Questers are PvP baits, they get killed, they kill someone and PvP starts being more likely. Especially if they are questing in groupes to avoid gankers. You're not in the mood for PvP ? Call friends and they'll keep the guys that killed you busy let you quest in peace.

What annoys me with this suggestion is that the main argument behind it is a minor part of what PvP servers are and an easily avoided. I'm not saying the system couldn't be avoided it could be improved a lot and i've already made lots of suggestions on that subject (main idea being encouraging and supporting guild wars). Compartimenting PvE and PvP because considered fundamentaly not compatible i'm strongly against.

EDIT: and saying that it's open-worlds flaws that made the server be less populated than PvE servers is such a flawed concept. In the early years of the game, before 1.05 PvP servers where much more populated than the PvE ones. And Open-world PvP was at its highest.