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Thread: The Raid Demo

  1. #1

    Default The Raid Demo

    Ahoy!


    This thread is supposed to give a short introduction to playing the Demonologist. The guide focusses on raiding.

    The way to play is not the only way possible. It is based on personal opinions, experiences and calculations made by others and me, not on an absolute truth.

    If you've got something to add or find something which is unclear or even plain wrong, I'd be happy for you to post here or sent me a PM. Any questions or suggestions for additional information are of course welcome, too.

    If you're into German, you can read the first version in our guild forum:

    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...e/artikel.html

    If not, than... well, you could enjoy the pictures.

    Khaletohep
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 27th December 2013 at 23:12.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  2. #2

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    Introduction

    The Demonologist's functions in a raid are
    - dealing damage,
    - debuffing, esp. enemies' energy resistances,
    - buffing others, esp. increasing their damage output,
    - minor healing.

    The class is most similar to the Necromancer, but a bit less complex and weird. It also has some similarities with the Tempest of Set, as they're both great AoE-Damage Dealers, provide healing and great damage buffs to other classes.
    It's very straightforward and well rounded class, easy to learn and thus well suited for starting a raid career, but also able to reach unknown heights with increasing experience and gear.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 27th December 2013 at 23:16.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  3. #3

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    Feat builds

    The Basic Build: Long Range Lightning Artillery

    The build
    This build is easy to learn, yet gives you all the tools necessary to make a top spot in the damage-o-meter.

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v6_12c6...99c8196a51944c

    Pro and contra
    Pro:
    - good damage output (with very good range)
    - very good aggro reduces
    - pet heals your group
    - good Crowd Control
    - no serious mana issues
    - easy to play

    Contra:
    - Nothing. It's just that good.

    Cast rotation
    The basic cast rotation on this build is actually extremely easy:
    - Shock Lance (whenever the buff "Empowered Shock Lance" is at x5), else
    - Shock (if not on cooldown), else
    - Shockstrike.

    This looks somewhat simplistic, but and really, it is. But that's all that is needed with this feat setup. You can even leave Shock Lance away and just cast Shock and Shockstrike - the whole build focusses on these two spells.

    In true AoE situations, e. g. the hordes of adds in Black Ring Citadel, use this instead:
    - Shock, else
    - Shockblast, else
    - Shockstrike.

    Shockblast will... well, blast everything with shocks. You fill your whole screen with damage numbers. Huge damage numbers.

    The Hybrid Build: Medium Range Lightning/Fire Cannon

    The build
    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v6_12c1...8da818c1a19b55

    This build exchanges the General tree as well as range and the knockback and shockblast buffs from the thunder tree - all to improve one single spell from the Conflagration school: Hellfire Stream. This spell, if used with all the feats given here, is
    a.) instant,
    b.) hits everything between you and your target,
    c.) puts a nasty little DoT on your opponents and
    d.) reduces your target's elemental resistances.

    However, it uses up a lot of mana, and the build lacks the mana gaining feats from the general tree.

    Pro and contra
    Pro:
    - very good damage output
    - pet heals your group
    - additional damage buff for your group (Demonic War)
    - good Crowd Control

    Contra:
    - no feated aggro reduces
    - mana problems (depends on equipment and group setup)

    The cast rotation
    The cast rotation on this build is the same as before, with just one spell added:
    - Shock Lance (whenever the buff "Empowered Shock Lance" is at x5), else
    - Hellfire Steam (if not on cooldown), else
    - Shock (if not on cooldown), else
    - Shockstrike.

    If you want, use "Unholy Hate" whenever the cooldown is through. That's a double edged sword, though: This buffs not only increases your own damage, but also that of other team members, letting you shine less in comparison. If you're of the generous type and want to use your hard earned mana to the benefit of lesser classes, feel free to do though. We won't look down on you. Promise.

    Hellfire Stream puts a stacking fire DoT on your target. Now, you can use this in two ways:
    - "Consume Flames" removes the fire DoT and gives you up to 12% of your mana. Best mana gain is if the DoT is at "x5".
    - "Detonation" removes the fire DoT, but deals instant damage and a knockback effect on your target. Damage and the strength of the knockback are increased with the multiplier of the DoT, so it's best used at x5. If the target is a minion, it's killed instantly, not matter what the multiplier is.

    The Waves of Flame Build: Short range Flamethrower

    This build is only viable with a certain AA perk: "Ring of Fire". You need at least 3/5 points in that, but should really aim for 5/5. This funny little perk effectively doubles the damage output of this spell, increases its radius and is just... awesome.
    Thus, it's actually worth it to build a whole feat setup around that spell.

    The build 1: Shockstrike
    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v6_12c1...996419b5519bb8

    This variant uses Shockstrike as a main nuke. It's slightly better versus multiple opponents than variant 2.

    The build 2: Fires of Gehenna
    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v6_12c1...996419b5519bb8

    This variant uses Fires of Gehenna as a main nuke. It's slightly better versus single targets than variant 1.

    Pro and contra
    Pro:
    - extremley good damage output
    - pet heals your group
    - good Crowd Control

    Contra:
    - no feated aggro reduces
    - short range
    - needs Ring of Fire AA perk

    The cast rotation
    Again... one spell is added to the aforementioned rotation.
    - Shock Lance (whenever the buff "Empowered Shock Lance" is at x5), else
    - Hellfire Steam (if not on cooldown), else
    - Shock (if not on cooldown), else
    - Waves of Flames (if not on cooldown),
    - Shockstrike (or Fires of Gehenna with Variant 2).

    Be very careful not to pull aggro with this build. Waves of Flames gives you great burst damage, and there's a high probability to pull aggro from the tank during his first one or two combos.

    The Entity build

    This build is intended solely for the Entity, an encounter in the T4 raid dungeon. Again: This is not the only way to prepare for this fight, probably not even the best, but presented here as an example of what you can do.

    The build
    http://joharaoc.eu/feat/?link=v6_12c...883219b5518e74

    Pro and contra
    Pro:
    - very good damage output
    - good mana tools (Demonic Heart of Chatha and Consume Flames)
    - Flame Body (+77,7 fire damage, +30% fire resistance for 10 seconds)

    Contra:
    - No Demonic War

    Cast rotation
    Same as with the Hybrid build. Use Flame Body versus Bombardment.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 29th December 2013 at 09:40.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  4. #4

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    Alternative Advancement Perks


    There're only a few AA perks you'll need to know about:

    Basic
    My advice: Always use Decisive Strikes + Pressing Strikes.

    Decisive Strikes
    More Crit. Yes. This.

    Pressing Strikes
    More Hit. More Crit Damage. Also good.

    Archeytpe
    My advice: Use Enchanter and Will of the Sublime. Exchange Will of the Sublime with Unbinding Charm if needed for the encounter.

    Subtle Illusion
    Note: Doesn't need a perk slot.
    Reduces the amount aggro you have already got by 20%. Good thing. Use this before getting aggro. The cast time is too slow to be effective after you got aggro. E. g.: Use at 80% of the boss's HP, then whenever the cooldown is through, i. e. every two minutes.

    Enchanter
    Increases rogues' damage by a huge amount. Why is this a good thing? Because rogues drawing aggro is a useful early warning sign. When the first assassin dies, tone down your damage a bit.

    Will of the Sublime
    Gives you a small amount of additional +Critical damage for every 100 points of Intelligence. Not great, but heck, more than nothing. Does NOT increase critical chance as some seem to believe, just the damage done when you actually crit. Not that great.

    Unbinding Charm
    This spell removes certain debuffs from you and a group member. Only needed in some special encounters (e. g. Coppice of the Heart, Mithrelle in T4). Use as follows: Target the debuffed group/raid member. Move close to him. Very close. Then cast the spell.

    Class
    My advice: Always use Cacodemon and either Ring of Fire (<- if "Flamethrower" build) or Bindings of the Sky Lord (<- if not).

    Cacodemon
    Gives you a new pet which gives a damage buff to your group. Better than all other pets. Use this.

    Ring of Fire
    Decreases cast time and increases radius of the spell "Waves of Flame". Great perk if you use the spell - see feat build No 3 above. Else, don't bother.

    Bindings of the Skylord
    Use this if you don't use Ring of Fire. Gives you another near-instant direct damage spell. Uses a lot of mana; fully feated, it has a cooldown of 15 seconds and uses 704 mana - that'll burn through your blue bar like thermite. If you have mana problems, don't use this feat. Viable for short encounters, soloing and PvP, though.

    Renegotiation
    Gives you a small bonus to crit damage when Pact of Set or Archfiend's Pact are running. Bonus at rank 3/5 is +216 = +5% bonus damage, so... well... only use this if you cannot use anything else.

    Boil Blood
    May look good on paper, but is craptastic. Waste of points. Shockstrike and Shockblast do more damage even in conditions ideal for Boil Blood, without needing perk slots.

    Enlarged Shock and Enlarged Hellfire Stream
    These feats give you up to +5 m range on Shock and Hellfire Stream. That's a great thing, especially for the Hybrid build. Don't need perk slots.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 29th December 2013 at 10:21.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  5. #5

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    Equipment


    Age of Conan being an MMO, looking for equipment will keep you busy your whole career, and a guide like this cannot give you a whole program from level 1 to T4. On some points, however, some words need to be said.

    Your first raiding gear
    When you reach level 80 with your demo, all is great. You now need about 10 G to buy a set which will last you for quite some time. Buy this from the tradepost or let somebody craft it for you:

    Armor
    Fine Steelsilk Clothing. Level 80 crafted cloth armor. Looks stupid, but has actually pretty great stats. Fill all slots with "Cabochon Azurite" gems. Often found at the tradepost with gems already put in. You'll spend about 1.5 to 2.0 G on the whole set.

    Rings
    Buy two "Dreamer's Keepsake" at the tradepost. Great rings - you probably won't find anything better until T3. And even then, you'll still love them for the HP bonus. Fill slots with "Omnific Marquise Pushparagam", a blue quality level 80 gem.

    Price varies for rings and gems. Anything up to 3 G is okay, more is... well, they're really good rings, so pay whatever is needed.

    Necklace
    Do your destiny quest, get an epic necklace. Quite a good one, actually.

    Cloak
    Visit a Vistrix raid. If you don't have a quest for an epic cloak leading you there, ask if anybody's got it, and ask the raid leader nicely (and not during a boss fight or some other really stupid moment) to switch you into a group with the quest guy. Have him share it with you. Say "Thank you, kind Sir." to him. He's done you a great favor. Or she. Be extra nice if it's a she.

    Weapons
    If you don't have a "good" weapon, consider buying 2x Codex of Mystic Virtues on the tradepost, a blue level 73 talisman with Con, Mana Reg and Damage. It's nothing to brag about, but two of those are better than some weapons I've seen people show up in T1 raids, and they typically sell for less than 10 S.

    If you're loaded with money, buy a "Lemurian Firestick", sells for about 15 G. Good weapon, but very expensive.

    Whatever you buy, it will last you to what you should be going for next:

    As a Demo, there is a great great epic weapon you can get from a quest in Black Ring Citadel (T2 raid dungeon), wing 2.

    Get this as follows:
    - Finish your destiny quests.
    - Visit Conan and Khalentes, until you get a quest to get a Dragon Tooth from Vistrix' Lair.
    - Join a T1 raid. Learn using Teamspeak/Ventrilo, adjust your graphics settings to whatever your computer can handle and get accustomed to 23 people running around like beheaded chicken.
    - Finish the dragon tooth quest and follow up quests, until you're sent into Black Ring Citadel.
    - Visit Dexitheus in Conan's Castle. Get the quest "Army at the Gates of the Abyss". If he doesn't give you the quest, ask people to share it with you.
    - Join a T2 raid, Wing 2. Kill Seruah. Get a weapon looking like an oversized Q-Tip with great damage and mana leech.

    Most steps can be skipped by somebody just sharing the quest with you, which is possible at level 80, and directly joing a T2 raid.

    Kithai, Vile Nativity and Ardashir Fort
    Some 6-person-Dungeons give you great gear, equal or superior to T3 gear. There're multiple choices, none of them being the one and final truth, but as an example, aim for this set:
    - Hood of the Putrescent. Drops in Ardashir Fort.
    - Blade's Bracers of the Black Arts. Bought from the Brittle Blade at faction rank 4.
    - Blade's Boots of the Black Arts. Bought from the Brittle Blade at faction rank 4.
    - Blade's Belt of the Grim Cabal. Drops in Yun Rau.
    - Blade's Grips of the Grim Cabal. Drops in Reliquary of Flame.
    - Blade's Straps of the Grim Cabal. Drops in Den of the Crowmen. OR: Summoner's Straps of Prestige. Drops in Pagoda.
    - Blade's Tunic of Arcane Death. Bought from Brittle Blades. No rank needed, but 196 hard mode tokens.
    - Blade's Breeches of the Grim Cabal. OR: Summoner's Leggins of Prestige. Both drop in Enigmata of Yag.
    - Shroud of the Ghost Crows' Spite. Cloak. Drops in Vile Nativity.

    Weapons, Rings and Necklaces from Kithai aren't that great. If you've got time to spare, go for them, but raid weapons are usually better and easier to get. But avoid the T1/T2/T3 Demo staffs - they are terrible, as they lack +Crit chance.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 28th December 2013 at 01:11.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  6. #6

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    Spells


    Some spells deserve a special mention.

    Chaotic Blast
    Area of Effect Damage spell. Does some damage, but the important thing is something else: It gives a Elemental Wrack effect, which means a -10% penalty on the targets' elemental resistances.
    The Tempest of Set usually applies an identical effect in his regular damage routine. Both don't stack, so don't bother with this if there's a ToS attacking the boss - he'll set the debuff. Same goes for debuff-happy Heralds of Xotli.
    But if there's nobody else to do it or you're in an AoE fight... do it yourself. For example, use Chaotic Blast, then Shockblast for even greater damage than normal.
    A bonus of +10% damage for all emental damage is a lot, as it gives about 6 people in your raid a damage increase worth about half a damage dealer in total.

    Archfiend's Pact
    Low on Mana? Ring your best friend, and he'll fill you up. Everything has a price though, and the spell will quickly drain your life. Don't use this if you're low on health already or expect to receive damage in the immediate future.

    Pact of Set / Blood Pact of Set
    These spells give you a small damage boost, but apply a small DoT effect on you. As long as you've got the standard heals running, the DoT doesn't really matter.

    Circle of Magic
    This places a small circle on the ground. Everybody standing in this circle gains +10% Mana leech, i. e. you gain 1 point of mana for every 10 points of damage you do. The effect is not that great - imagine you do 1000 DPS, this will give you 100 Mana per second for 10 seconds = 1000 Mana. But well, it's free Mana, so we shouldn't complain. In AoE encounters, you'll of course reach much higher DPS and therefore gain much more mana.

    Planar Shift
    Almost identical to "Subtle Illusion". Reduces your current aggro status by about 20%, gives you damage deflection for a short time.
    As this spell has a very short cast time, it is viable to use this even after getting aggro. Can also be used to reduce damage you receive if you know that beforehand, e. g. versus the dreaded "Volley" attack in the General Sheng encounter (T4).

    Hands of the Underworld
    A speed buff. Great for running through the raid dungeon after you've died and respawned.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 28th December 2013 at 09:42.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  7. #7

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    Spellweaving

    Most things can be learned by reading the tooltips:

    http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uplo...xov8bec2gh.jpg

    Spellweaving has seven major effects:

    Energy Drain
    It slowly drains your energy. When your energy is used up, it drains health instead.

    Random Debuffs
    You gain random debuffs. Two deserve special mention:
    - Ether Drain drains your mana. The effect increases over time. My advice: Stop spellweaving once you reach "x3", than let the debuff run out and try again.
    - Demon's Payment can be big trouble. If you have less than 75% health, you start loosing mana - and if you don't have any mana left, it'll drain your health. The mana loss is very fast. This single debuff makes spellweaving very, very dangerous in some encounters. With this debuff running, being hit by the bosses AoE damage may drain all your mana or even kill you.

    Knockback Immunity
    It makes you immune to Knockback. Not very important, but nice to have in some encounters, e. g. Celestial Necropolis.

    No potions
    You cannot consume potions while spellweaving. Any potions still running continue to work, though. Always drink a mana potion before entering Spellweave!

    Passive Buffs
    It gives you passive buffs, for example increased crit chance with some spells, increase radius on others and so on. You can view these effects in the hover info of your spellweaving buff. The boni increase with time. You'll notice a counter of "x1" increasing to "x6" with time. At each increase, you get more and bigger buffs.

    One major effect is a huge increase in Spell Critical Damage on Fires of Gehenna, Hellfire Stream, Shock, Shockstrike, Shockblast, Inferno of Amber and and Waves of Flame. Now, every point of crit chance you have pays out even more.

    Temporary Buffs
    You can choose between several temporary buffs every few seconds.

    Arcane Renewal
    Gives you back some energy, allowing you to spellweave longer before you start loosing health. Okay, 3/5 stars.

    Howl of Amageddon
    Puts a knockback on all enemies in front to you, 7 m range. Situational, 1/5 stars.

    Hell's Garden aka the Pizza of Doom
    Creates a lingering AoE damage effect on the ground. All enemies in the field receive damage every second. Damage is always welcome. 3/5 stars.

    Arcane Surge
    Let's all your spells deal "maximum" damage. The buff increases the variable amount of damage to the maximum. Example: Shockstrike 6 does 579-707 points of base damage, i. e. an average of (579+707)/2 = 643. With Arcane Surge, it'll always deal 707 points of damage. The average base damage has been increased by 707 - 643 = 64, which translates into a buff of about 10% to your base spell damage. Does nothing to the bonus spell damage you get from equipment, so the increase is in effect much less than 10%. Still... more damage is welcom. 3/5 stars.

    Hand of Doom
    This makes all of your relevant spells crit all of the time - for 10 seconds. This is great, especially with all the Crit Damage Bonus gained from spellweaving.
    Sadly, it also increases the mana costs by +200%, i. e. it triples the mana you use. This will drain your mana pretty quickly.
    The Tempest of Set's "Blood Mana" ability, your "Archfiend's pact" and some other abilities can help to mitigate the mana use.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 29th December 2013 at 10:19.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  8. #8

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    Fine guide Khaletohep! I do have to pick on some things though! :-)

    I use variants of the Flamethrower build mostly on my demo. What you say about no agro tools is not correct as you have Planar Shift and Subtle Illusion that you can use prematurely when you know you will do some burst damage. Most importantly though know your tanks and when they typically use taunts.

    You forgot to mention the damage component of Detonation in the description. If you use it when Incinerate is stacked at x5 which it will be if you got Improved WoF feated, it does a lot more damage than if you use it with 1 stack. I include this in my rotation even if the mob I fight is not CC'able. This is a screenshot of Detonation's damage. Stack 1 on top, stack 5 on bottom: http://bildr.no/image/akJMcTda.jpeg

    You have also forgotten Chaotic Blast. It applies the Elemental Wrack, which also can be applied through HoX's Molten Steel Slash, or ToS' Storm Sparks. The difference here is that ToS' debuff is purely single target, HoX' is the ones he can hit with his sword, yours is 8 meter radius AoE.

    You have not said anything about Pact of the Archfiend. In addition to boosting your magic damage, it fills your mana completely up. This is nice tool to use after the 3rd crit buff when your mana usually is empty and you got some stacks of Ether Drain.

    The feats that give bonus critical chance are not much of a point to feat. I have "Hellwave" just because it makes Hellfire Stream free. The 5 points in Improved Waves of Flame adds +5% crit damage of the actual % you already have got, giving you an extra 1% crit chance on that spell. The same goes for Fury of the Underworld, it adds 10% of your crit chance to the crit chance of your pet, meaning around 2% increase. It does not increase the crit chance to 30%.

    The gem you wanna put in the cloth armor is lvl 50, Cabochon Azurite.

    I mostly run with Ring of Fire and Bindings of the Skylord, using the Demon Warlord pet. Cacodemon has a higher damage coefficient from your magic damage than the Demon Warlord, but in the end you will do more damage from a Bindings of the Skylord every 14 seconds than you will from the 0.1 coefficient difference of Warlord and Cacodemon. Cacodemon hits around 10% harder with 1000 magic damage. The buff from Cacodemon is allright to have in group if you are fighting mobs with high protection rating so you can help the raid dps by giving melees more weapon damage.

    Will of the Sublime is insignificant if you have the lvl 80 cloth armor and magic damage accessories. Though with 1900 intelligence as I got on my demo, thats 15% worth of crit dmg rating. Unslotting it removes 7,9% critical damage rating. That is very much noticable on parser.
    Last edited by Shax84; 28th December 2013 at 00:27.

  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback! Yes, some things are not complete yet, I was raiding and killing dragons (i. e. waiting for dragons to kill) on one eye.

    Interesting thing about the Cacodemon. Personally, I'm a fanatic about that thing; as a raid leader, I just love to put Demos with their little buff machines into groups full of rogues. Enchanter 5/5 + Cacodemon 5/5 = +25% Weapon Damage. That's nice. But yes, you're right, from a damage perspective, Bindings + Ring would be better.

    Do you have an opinion on "Pact with Set" and "Bloody Pact with Set"? Personally, I tend to cast them when I'm bored, but the effect seems to be neglible to me. The time spent on casting the pact cannot be used to cast a damaging spell. Is it worth it?

    Are you sure about Improved Waves of Flame? I'd think it's an increase in percentage points, i. e. from (for example) base 15% Crit Chance for all spells to 20% Crit Chance for Waves of Flames.
    Last edited by Khaletohep; 28th December 2013 at 01:12.
    Make Hyboria raid again!

    Khaletoheps AoC-Youtube-Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Khaletohep

    Guides zu Klassen & allen HM-Solo-Inis:
    http://www.nachtwind-gilde.com/guide...-age-of-conan/

  10. #10

    Default

    Demo's not that complicated, but in a raid you should be spamming your pacts since 90% of raid content you have almost no chance of dying if you pay attention.

    Also, while it may seem like Bindings adds to your dps, all it really does is waste mana. In fact, most of your instants waste more mana than they are worth. That's why I go renegotiation (which puts me close to 40% crit damage when on) and improved pacts, the extra damage from your crits (when you have 20% crit chance or more) make up for the mana cost of bindings since you won't have any mana issues if you use archfiend properly. I'm not saying don't use instants, but you can't just spam them, you'll run go oom really quick.

    So situationally you can swap RoF with Cacodemon since some encounters you simply can't use WoF. Of course you have people that swear by the cacodemon and twitch if they take it off their set up, so to each their own I guess. 10% weapon damage is not a game breaker, it's just nice to have.
    Doomsayer 2008

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