Old School Patching

[Suctum]

Raist, everyone knows about all the above exploits, but all were completely irrelevant against good players. If you had BK T3 Invulns, there wasn't an issue against 1 shots, it would only occur against people who didn't have any BK invulns at all, which was the broken feature of the game.

The skill curve in the game at that time was much higher because life was so precious. if you weren't proactively responding to the situation instantly, you were dead, which is why no good guilds wanted you as a player. Any game that is based on high twitch, minimal gear dependency and your characters life is valuable, requires much more intellect and skill curve then the garbage you're playing today.

Burning Crusade in WoW was the exact same way as the old AoC and it is known by pretty much everyone it was the highest skill curve era for wow, where you could get 1 shotted, but that is only if you were bad. Otherwise, if you were good, you knew how to counter it and once the person "blew their 1 shot load" they were useless and it allowed for situations of 3 vs 1, which we both know are impossible now, unless the guy is some pvp 1 tortage noob that just came off the boat.

Now does that mean AoC was perfect back then? Not for a second, it surely needed it's tweaks, but it was hell better then what the game offers today and the statistics show that as a prime example. Look at the player base left playing the game? Everyone that has pretty much stuck around minus a small 1% are all bad players who were never truly great at the game and now use their gear, invulns and experience within the game to reign terror over a community of PVE players. Pretty sad if you ask me, there is no competition, it's just a wasteland of gear hungry wannabes.

Not sure about most of this, since I was there. More skill based? All you had to do was pre whiff combos and only hit the finishers, it's not like people were actually hitting 5 step combos correctly. Charge cancel, stacking pulsating gems, clobber/no escape/butcher mold, sin SDS/Atrophy combo slide, SC one shot, all kinds of tricks that players who spent the time theory crafting found out before anyone else. Basically countering any of this just meant double tapping (since it was unlimited) or just using an instant CC, or kiting until their buffs ran out. Many people did not understand the mechanics the first year AoC was out (including myself), so just because someone was who plays pvp competitively would already have advantage over noobs like myself at launch. I didn't even know what keybinds meant then. Of course 2-3 years later the same people who I thought were beast at launch (doomsayer server) were pretty much just average players later on when several combat mechanics changed...so it's hard to tell who is good or bad from then.

BK buffs, they were double stacking for a bit as well, so your right there.

The 1%? I saw numerous "old school pros" come back that just could not make it in the 4.0 junior league era. Adapting to game play is also a sign of a good player, and if the game devolves into what it is today, a great player should be able to make the change and adapt. However, most of these "pros" required numerous combat exploits to retain the "skill" level, canceling, molding, and such. Just because it's not there anymore, this does not limit movement, skill, countering, it just changes the nature of it. There is no more 3 vs. 12, you can't fight 4 v 1 anymore, even the crustiest
sh!t stain has a chance to kill you, it's just how it is now-Gear is a HUGE factor, it wasn't then.

I'm not discounting that these players were good, but if they could not adapt to the game mechanics of now who cares what they did then, because your right about the 1%, we are the only ones who remember. The rest of the 99% have no clue who you are talking about, and bringing up what could be done and by who 3 years ago is irrelevant to the game now. I agree with some of what your saying, but it just does not matter anymore. Just like I qq about the gear gap since I don't have a schedule that allows me to sit in numerous t4 raids every week to get pvp gear (since that's what t4 gear is), I just have to get over it.

[Kurt2013]

Sorry, but one-shotting, learning curve and skill sound weird together in one sentence. If you can oneshot people, there is no learning curve and no skill per definition.

My experiences back then, even when fighting chain ccs, bunnies and skippers was different. Sure, you could die almost as fast as now, but at least you knew what hit you and if the guy was cheating or not.
The fights against non-exploiters were a lot more fun back then and more tactical, because you could actually do something by moving, timing, reacting and watching the enemy (and most cheaters had a limited attack sequences).

Talking about the period between 1.4 and 1.6 here. With 1.6 the "memory optimization" and rubberbanding introduction, the fun started to dwindle and it got more and more luckbased. And i must admit i did not play all classes back then, but had a melee, caster and ranged.

In the above posts the interesting thing is (i agree with most of the analysis, except the points i mentioned), that people still mistake experience for skill. If you find out all the bugs, exploits and weaknesses, that is experience. Skill would be to react and apply the tools given. Had most of the players back then been more "skilled", there would have been more variety in attack sequences

I don't agree about it being irrelevant. Especially when it comes to the technical side of "optimization" and anti-exploit mechanism. They definitely require to be looked at, because the "optimization" back then was done with locally distributed servers in mind. What worked back then, dees not necessary work now (and whoever remembers the deadly waters of Tesso can argue, that they even worked back then). A second lesson that "could" be learned, is how you decide the pace, learning curve and balancing of battles and how you achieved it back then and now. So no...history never becomes irrelevant.

[camilleboucquill]

Talking about the period between 1.4 and 1.6 here. With 1.6 the "memory optimization" and rubberbanding introduction, the fun started to dwindle and it got more and more luckbased. And i must admit i did not play all classes back then, but had a melee, caster and ranged.

yea luck is quite big today, sin is the one class that depends teh most on luck

[-Khramps-]

Sorry, but one-shotting, learning curve and skill sound weird together in one sentence. If you can oneshot people, there is no learning curve and no skill per definition.

My experiences back then, even when fighting chain ccs, bunnies and skippers was different. Sure, you could die almost as fast as now, but at least you knew what hit you and if the guy was cheating or not.
The fights against non-exploiters were a lot more fun back then and more tactical, because you could actually do something by moving, timing, reacting and watching the enemy (and most cheaters had a limited attack sequences).

Talking about the period between 1.4 and 1.6 here. With 1.6 the "memory optimization" and rubberbanding introduction, the fun started to dwindle and it got more and more luckbased. And i must admit i did not play all classes back then, but had a melee, caster and ranged.

In the above posts the interesting thing is (i agree with most of the analysis, except the points i mentioned), that people still mistake experience for skill. If you find out all the bugs, exploits and weaknesses, that is experience. Skill would be to react and apply the tools given. Had most of the players back then been more "skilled", there would have been more variety in attack sequences

I don't agree about it being irrelevant. Especially when it comes to the technical side of "optimization" and anti-exploit mechanism. They definitely require to be looked at, because the "optimization" back then was done with locally distributed servers in mind. What worked back then, dees not necessary work now (and whoever remembers the deadly waters of Tesso can argue, that they even worked back then). A second lesson that "could" be learned, is how you decide the pace, learning curve and balancing of battles and how you achieved it back then and now. So no...history never becomes irrelevant.

Come talk to me when you actually have some pvp premade experience under your belt.

[-Khramps-]

Not sure about most of this, since I was there. More skill based? All you had to do was pre whiff combos and only hit the finishers, it's not like people were actually hitting 5 step combos correctly. Charge cancel, stacking pulsating gems, clobber/no escape/butcher mold, sin SDS/Atrophy combo slide, SC one shot, all kinds of tricks that players who spent the time theory crafting found out before anyone else. Basically countering any of this just meant double tapping (since it was unlimited) or just using an instant CC, or kiting until their buffs ran out. Many people did not understand the mechanics the first year AoC was out (including myself), so just because someone was who plays pvp competitively would already have advantage over noobs like myself at launch. I didn't even know what keybinds meant then. Of course 2-3 years later the same people who I thought were beast at launch (doomsayer server) were pretty much just average players later on when several combat mechanics changed...so it's hard to tell who is good or bad from then.

BK buffs, they were double stacking for a bit as well, so your right there.

The 1%? I saw numerous "old school pros" come back that just could not make it in the 4.0 junior league era. Adapting to game play is also a sign of a good player, and if the game devolves into what it is today, a great player should be able to make the change and adapt. However, most of these "pros" required numerous combat exploits to retain the "skill" level, canceling, molding, and such. Just because it's not there anymore, this does not limit movement, skill, countering, it just changes the nature of it. There is no more 3 vs. 12, you can't fight 4 v 1 anymore, even the crustiest
sh!t stain has a chance to kill you, it's just how it is now-Gear is a HUGE factor, it wasn't then.

I'm not discounting that these players were good, but if they could not adapt to the game mechanics of now who cares what they did then, because your right about the 1%, we are the only ones who remember. The rest of the 99% have no clue who you are talking about, and bringing up what could be done and by who 3 years ago is irrelevant to the game now. I agree with some of what your saying, but it just does not matter anymore. Just like I qq about the gear gap since I don't have a schedule that allows me to sit in numerous t4 raids every week to get pvp gear (since that's what t4 gear is), I just have to get over it.

Suctum, why do you always try and point out the obvious, no crap that there were "tons" of exploits during that era and that people used them and some couldn't adapt, but you always forget to acknowledge how many players COULD have used them but didn't during that era and tore every one up in PVP. Yes, we all know 1 shot tos wasn't skillful, but guess what, good players could have easily countered it and it never really occured in duels or premades at the top tier, both of which you were NEVER in or participated in because guess what? You were never any good.

Saying that people can't adapt to the game is just pathetic. Almost every single Carnage player went through every patch and continued to dominate. It was only now we decided after zero competition, massive gear grinds and the constant ignoring of pvp players patch after patch and watering down the game to the point that any dead brain dog could play it is the main reason why NOBODY plays it that is actually good.

There isn't a single player in AoC now that is actually considered "good" besides players like Anatu who knows full well that if any main Carnage players came back for a few months of "adapting" to your craptastic game play mechanics would only reveal once again that they were the best players.

Yes the duels back then actually required skill and requires way more movement and understanding then they do now. Yes, the players back then could have 1 shotted, but only bad players would allow for that to happen, there were so many ways to counter it. Yes we all know that some classes were more dominant then others no matter how good of a player you're, that's the nature of the beast in MMO's, but the fact remains that 1.4 was and will always be the skill based era.

Hell, I'd even take back the ROTGS era, it's better then the trash you're playing now. Look at Balacai's mini-games on youtube, have you seen them? It doesn't even look like they're working as a team and the players are all horrendous. I am not saying that because I think I am better or because I am just being ignorant, it's honestly a fact, just watch it and see it for yourself. IF you can't see what is wrong with their mini games, then you clearly are just as bad as them, because those premades would get slaughtered like they did when we were all playing during the time we played.

1-click abilities + T4 gear and CASTING CC's and slow combo animation isn't exactly "skill based" that is called SOCIALIST GAMING.

[Hikkimori]

Damnit Khramps, after reading couple of your posts you really made me want to see that famous carnage premade again. I suppose you were a crucial part of those premades and judging by your gameplay I see every now and then on crom and your pvp video you are just another generic necro ( no offense here); I can say that pre of yours would get raped by any decent fury pre. Regarding Balacai video you must have some beef with him since you bring that up a lot. He just isn't exactly a team player and u can see how many times he left his team-mates for dead.
Ps. I never played on any us server.

[Balacai]

Those premades were with people I never played with before that day and it was just a completely spur-of-the-moment "x up for a premade" in guild chat thing that I happened to log on and see, so I joined. I had to download Teamspeak to even hear them and I don't think my mic worked with it. Just FYI

[-Khramps-]

Those premades were with people I never played with before that day and it was just a completely spur-of-the-moment "x up for a premade" in guild chat thing that I happened to log on and see, so I joined. I had to download Teamspeak to even hear them and I don't think my mic worked with it. Just FYI

Then why does it look so similar to a life premade

[Balacai]

omg lol every time
living in the past kid

[Suctum]

If you all have so much to prove, resub, put together your teams, and do something. But complaining the game is nothing more than a runny sh!t stain doesn't mean anything when your not actively playing it and proving your point.

From what I remember, you all love to sh1t on the "self-proclaimed" best players, well, Crom is full of players like that, go do something about it :/