is really Conqueror the "new barbarian"?-returning player

[Codename-Quincy]

i rolled a conq as my free lvl 50, spent a couple gold on trader, and i sersly walk over mobs 5 at a time. there's really no comparison. conq is my new main.

[Boesch]

My personal best is 2592 on a carnage conq. The boss had no specific vulnerabilities.

[Texan615]

[QUOTE=armatur;2072475]

Looks like someone doesn't have a half competent conq in their guild.

2300ish on single boss zodiac single target parse.[/zk]

Zodiak is not single. Single would be keira zu li or any bosses in mem cloud.

Do Prophets not use selective parsing for Zodiac encounter, or do you think your ToS's are actually topping the parse there?

Having said that, using Zodiac parses can be somewhat misleading depending on how much dps other people in raid can put out. For example, our top people in Zodiac might hit 2000 here and there, but typically don't, yet our overall raid dps, from top to bottom, is quite high, we finish the encounter in less than 9 minutes.

Another example would be how I can take my T4 necro into a pug wing 1 and absolutely crush everyone in Sabazios fight, yet take that same necro into a guild only wing 1, and my dps would show as being considerably lower by comparison, all because everyone else's dps is now much higher.

[Erock25]

Having said that, using Zodiac parses can be somewhat misleading depending on how much dps other people in raid can put out. For example, our top people in Zodiac might hit 2000 here and there, but typically don't, yet our overall raid dps, from top to bottom, is quite high, we finish the encounter in less than 9 minutes.

Another example would be how I can take my T4 necro into a pug wing 1 and absolutely crush everyone in Sabazios fight, yet take that same necro into a guild only wing 1, and my dps would show as being considerably lower by comparison, all because everyone else's dps is now much higher.

I've heard this argument before but do not understand it. As long as pulling aggro is not an issue and the fight is long enough that the initial dps build up phase is a negligible amount of time, I do not see how the dps of those around you affects your dps at all. That is why we use dps as the bench mark in the first place. Damage divided by time so that time is not factor.

[Bvis]

I've heard this argument before but do not understand it. As long as pulling aggro is not an issue and the fight is long enough that the initial dps build up phase is a negligible amount of time, I do not see how the dps of those around you affects your dps at all. That is why we use dps as the bench mark in the first place.

On sabazios for casters it makes a huge difference - if you're the only one nuking all the snakes you do massive damage because you always hit lots of targets. If other people are also aoeing the snakes, a lot of them will die and you hit less targets. For single target sustained, I agree that the DPS of others around you doesn't matter. Whether or not others properly debuff the mob and/or buff you will matter though.

[armatur]

On sabazios for casters it makes a huge difference - if you're the only one nuking all the snakes you do massive damage because you always hit lots of targets. If other people are also aoeing the snakes, a lot of them will die and you hit less targets. For single target sustained, I agree that the DPS of others around you doesn't matter. Whether or not others properly debuff the mob and/or buff you will matter though.

It is same thing if everyone else burns boss faster that means end result will be different depending on raid.

[Texan615]

I've heard this argument before but do not understand it. As long as pulling aggro is not an issue and the fight is long enough that the initial dps build up phase is a negligible amount of time, I do not see how the dps of those around you affects your dps at all. That is why we use dps as the bench mark in the first place. Damage divided by time so that time is not factor.

I'm not going to get into a long discussion about it all. However, Zodiac parses are the T4 raid equivalent to strawman when we want to compare dps numbers of classes, we just have to take it with a grain of salt since there are a few things that will sometimes affect the numbers people post. For example, you might hit 2300 dps in Zodiac in your guild, yet if you brought your conq into our Zodiac raid, you might only hit 2000 dps.

[Erock25]

I'm not going to get into a long discussion about it all. However, Zodiac parses are the T4 raid equivalent to strawman when we want to compare dps numbers of classes, we just have to take it with a grain of salt since there are a few things that will sometimes affect the numbers people post. For example, you might hit 2300 dps in Zodiac in your guild, yet if you brought your conq into our Zodiac raid, you might only hit 2000 dps.

Why do you think that though? As long as your guild debuffs, similar group buffs, and keeps the boss as stationary as my guild, there is no way other people's dps around me affects my own on single target. Whether you burn a single boss in 2min or 2min 45s... it will not change a conq dps at all. Barb maybe, because of the reaver stack building mechanic.

[Texan615]

People please for love of god post your conq dps numbers so we can discution on numbers and not some made up crap conq can do more dps.

Typically, in our Zodiac kills (selective parsed, obviously), our conqs do 200-300 more dps than our barbs, generally. Gear levels are equal, and my subjective impression of player skill level are roughly even as well. I see similar differences in other fights in T4 as well where you can properly compare them (i.e. conqs are not having to tank and can be in full carnage dps mode).

Obviously, results will vary from guild to guild (some guilds might have stellar conqs and crappy barbs, or vice versa), just stating what I see in RA from conq/barbs that have similar gear levels and what I subjectively think have similar player skill level.

I personally have a T3 geared conq, and a T3/Khitai geared barb, the barb imo is slightly better geared than the conq, both roughly are equally aa'd. With my own personal experience of playing both classes, I still say the carnage conq will do 10-20% more dps than a reaver barb. So that can be 100-300 more dps, depending on where your baseline dps is at.

[Bortukali]

(...)
In PvE, it's a bit less tragic but not by much. Also, if the current loot for the unchained dungeons on test server goes live (heavy armor with -hate), barb will become utterly meaningless in PvE too except to spam TW/FH on those fights which need them.(...)

that happened a long time ago, its not just conq...
a lot of HM fights with no TW/FH requirement dont need rogues in group (same from mages with UC)...
with the amount of dps soldiers and healers have now (all 6 revamped), the need for dps classes are there either for special AA to be used or team buffs to make things easier (the team buffs can be ignored and the group can still win a PvE fight, it only makes the fight longer or less easier)...