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Thread: is really Conqueror the "new barbarian"?-returning player

  1. #11

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    Once again you're post is misleading Throughthedoor since you compare simultanesouly brute and carnage conq feats that for some aren't compatible. If barb works well with Hybride specs, conq is much less hybride friendly. Comparing them without taking this fact in consideration is bound to be partial.

    And there's also stuff i fail to see the relevance

    For example, the main combo CD. How is that relevant ?
    You seem to be comparing upheavel and HoFS. They don't have the same DPS potential. For instance, if upheavel does twice the damage HoFS does, you need to cast two of them to do the same damage. Not going to list them but there's pros and cons.

    Yes yes conq is powerfull, no doubt, but i find the accumulation of these post dishonest as much as useless. Though barb and conq have both a 1 hander dps oriented tree and a 2hander resistance oriented tree their similitude stop there and their role as much as mechanics are diffrent.
    Endlessly comparing them makes as much sense as comparing HoX and PoM or Ranger and Guard.
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  2. #12

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    If you're looking at raw 'power' in a class, Conqueror is better in almost all circumstances. I'd say however if your only metric of fun is power, for PVE take Dark Templar and PVP pick any of the soldiers, or maybe a full T4 demo/necro/ranger. Ignore every other class.

    Having played a Barbarian as my main for a long time until they killed combo cancelling and took away the timing, I'm quite happy to say that Brute Conq is everything a Zerker barb could be and more. It's just an awesome class with a lot to do, plenty of solutions to many problems, and capable in any role.

    Carnage Conq on the other hand is... meh. Sure it does insane damage but it is entirely devoid of skill and you get to rotate 3 combos over and over with just a few cooldowns to press. Prepare to be dazzled by OP numbers and then quickly realise there's no challenge to the class and move on.

    So why would you pick a Barbarian? Because maybe you like their style. Mabye you want to compete against yourself to be the best you can within the limits of a particular class? Maybe you don't want to play an OP class and be recognised for what you can do when the odds aren't stacked in your favour?

    I can assure you that the very best reaver barbs can compete with top damage dealing carnage conqs...

  3. #13

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but i remember times from back in the day when T2-Raids were still the hottest sh*t that decent carnie-conqs would be on par with reaver-barbs in dps.
    So at least this does not seem new to me.
    I think except for guardians all soldiers have quite some potential to top dps-charts if they spec for it.
    Also I think DT is even crazier when it comes to this, as usually a DT tanking in T4 and while fighting Zodiac especially has good chances to be among the Top10 or even Top5 DPSers while specced for tanking, even if it requires quite good gear its still crazy.
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelkjar View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but i remember times from back in the day when T2-Raids were still the hottest sh*t that decent carnie-conqs would be on par with reaver-barbs in dps.
    So at least this does not seem new to me.
    I think except for guardians all soldiers have quite some potential to top dps-charts if they spec for it.
    Also I think DT is even crazier when it comes to this, as usually a DT tanking in T4 and while fighting Zodiac especially has good chances to be among the Top10 or even Top5 DPSers while specced for tanking, even if it requires quite good gear its still crazy.
    If they aren't in the top 10 there's something horrendously wrong... DTs on zodiac can go >2400 single target and very little else can compete with that. Carnage conq, sin, maybe barb, and that's about it tbh.
    Last edited by Boesch; 21st October 2013 at 10:01.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by throughthedoor View Post
    Daksos and I compete for the top place parse in the emperor all the time. I usually beat him about 2/3 of the time but the difference form pvp is that in the emperor i have 15 reaver stacks THE WHOLE TIME (except for about 40 sec of earning it in the beginning, and I hold it via determination) Now if you take this to pvp scenario, it is implausible to hold 15 reaver stacks the whole time and live. Opposed to conq that has 15 reaver stacks (in a sense)all the time. So why play barb? Really there is no reason to unless you just want a challenge. Also, not to mention if you die, determination doesn't work when you are dead so you loose ALL YOUR STACKS and it really sucks sense it will take about 3 min to gain the stacks back. If you die on conq, nothing to really worry about but when you die on a barb it's really bad if you have stacks.

    conq vs barb

    conq = can land 5 torments + 1 wreck + 1 ruin = -50% armor in about 10 sec
    Barb = can land 5 torments in about 30 if you are fast (not to mention that it doesn't proc so it consists of lv 15 and 24 combos that do no damage) = only -25% armor debuff

    conq = between bladeweave, assult and fire banner you get about 10% increased crit rating on ALL COMBOS
    barb gets inceased crit rating on white hits but only increased crit rating on upheval if you have stacks (big if = player skill needed)

    conq = main combo 4 sec cd is aoe (2h)
    barb = main combo not aoe (so it's hard to hit kiters = playerskill needed)

    conq = 3 kb
    barb = 2 kb (and one slow one which ppl can dodge/jump back)

    conq = 2 snare, fear and silence
    barb = 2 stun and only good/present if feeted = big loss in dps

    conq = bubbles = retaliation (retributive bubble), flashing defense(100% evade bubble), blessed conquest (unhitable bubble)and overcome the odds(healing bubble) (and one more magic bubbles, forgot name)
    barb = cost 2 aa points = low dps = to get a bubble 9 sec that gives 60%evade/immunity (so yah, only one bubble at great cost)

    conq = quick combos (usually 1.5 sesc or less)
    barb = up to 3 sec combos with cyclone x (one sec cd) and upheval (one sec cd) cyclone and 2 sec combos with 2h weapon (usually you can't finish them they are so long. if you are stationary that long you will die)

    Conq gets healing in carnage or brute
    barb gets healing only if blood rage is active which lowers dps a lot. If i am in pvp gear/spec I have 295 dps in blood rage, when i get stacks in reaver i get 424 (so big loss for healing) not to mention that a conq gets what my barb has at 424 all the time. Plus the conq has heals and plate armor

    So is there any reason to play barb. Defiantly NOT. Why play barb? Because you want ppl to notice that you have skill instead of abusing an insanely easy class.
    Not all ranks from hail of furious strike are AOE, mis leading once again, not sure if i can read ur text correctly,, but did u mention barb got pretty imba snare?

    And flashing defence is not even that important since it got high cd and mostly it dosent even work against melee classes, secend of all, IMO it's damn broken, IT actually protects you less than rangers 30% from evasive action... like guardians storm reflex? is that the name? man thats also broken **** and dont work,
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  6. #16

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    Don't really see the problem with a conq in full carnage being able to DPS like a barb. I often play with a friend with a full Tiger Carnie conq wielding 2x ibis. My barb has about the same amount of AAs, and I have full tigers and 2x ibis on it, so they are good to compare to each other. We sometimes join t1 or t2 raids just for the fun of it. We parse about the same, she might be a little bit higher on the conq [depending on the fights and if I can hold my stacks up] but I see no problem on the conq matching my DPS since when she uses that specc we're able to tank a mob for about as long as well!

    Sure, she might pop over to defensive if she needs to survive, but then here DPS drops like a stone!
    Last edited by Eilien; 21st October 2013 at 10:42.
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    BiffTannen - 80 DT
    EmmettBrown - 80 Ranger
    GeorgeMcFly - 80 HoX
    MartMcFly - 80 Barb
    SirStabbAlot - 80Sin
    And the rest of the classes as alts hiding in a dusty closet, never to be used

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilien View Post
    Don't really see the problem with a conq in full carnage being able to DPS like a barb. I often play with a friend with a full Tiger Carnie conq wielding 2x ibis. My barb has about the same amount of AAs, and I have full tigers and 2x ibis on it, so they are good to compare to each other. We sometimes join t1 or t2 raids just for the fun of it. We parse about the same, she might be a little bit higher on the conq [depending on the fights and if I can hold my stacks up] but I see no problem on the conq matching my DPS since when she uses that specc we're able to tank a mob for about as long as well!
    You have highlighted two of the most important problems here:
    - the carnage conq wears heavy armor, while the barb light armor, so if their dps is equal then it's a huge flaw
    - barbarian can match the carnage conqs dps if he maintains 15 stacks of reaver... which is basically never in pvp (in pve it's easy to keep the 15 stacks on in any fight)

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ythor View Post
    You have highlighted two of the most important problems here:
    - the carnage conq wears heavy armor, while the barb light armor, so if their dps is equal then it's a huge flaw
    - barbarian can match the carnage conqs dps if he maintains 15 stacks of reaver... which is basically never in pvp (in pve it's easy to keep the 15 stacks on in any fight)

    Yes, I'm only seeing it from a PvE perspective, cause that's the only thing I play. So bear with me all you PvP people, you might just even ignore my posts

    In PvE the armour difference ain't a issue, since if the conq stays in frenzy it dies faster then me even though its using heavy armor. If it goes in to defensive, well, then I'm pretty sure I'll do more DPS then the Conq even if I start to use Blood Rage instead of Reaver.


    I can imagine it does make a big difference in PvP, and as I said that is something I never do so can't relate to your issues there. But from my PvE perspective there's no problem with the Carnie Conqs matching the Barb DPS
    ToungeMaster - 80 Guardian
    SirHealsAlot - 80 PoM
    BiffTannen - 80 DT
    EmmettBrown - 80 Ranger
    GeorgeMcFly - 80 HoX
    MartMcFly - 80 Barb
    SirStabbAlot - 80Sin
    And the rest of the classes as alts hiding in a dusty closet, never to be used

  9. #19

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    All this hating on the barb. I think the class needs a little jump in dps. But not nearly as bad as everyone tries to make it sound.

    Yes, Conq is retarded OP atm. But knowing funcom they will nerf and destroy at a later date.
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    All this hating on the barb. I think the class needs a little jump in dps. But not nearly as bad as everyone tries to make it sound.

    Yes, Conq is retarded OP atm. But knowing funcom they will nerf and destroy at a later date.
    its not barb that needs upgrade that much, Id rather say tanks need serious nerf. revamp tanks?

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