Why does upheaval butcher do 50% more damage than cyclone

[Bortukali]

One could not say anything better about barbarians, one of the strongest killers in PVP classes!
Barbarians can not only heal themselves, deal high damage really quickly (Butchers take 20-30% of my health); they can also CC and run away as no one else.
Fighting a barbarian with a two-handed sword can be a nightmare in PVP, especially with a healer on the opposite side.

almost invincible when barb is close to a healer

[throughthedoor]

What I am saying is that if. . .

butcher/cyclone have no feat points to increase damage
there are no buffs running
there are equal aa points in butcher/cyclone
and the player has t3 2h weapon and t3 dual wield main hand

then the 2sec combo finisher of upheaval does the same total damage as the 3sec combo finisher of the cyclone upheaval.
This should not be the case.

all combo feats/aa/ and buffs aside.

[PunkJiuJitsu]

That would be nice to have the combo faster. What would really be nice is to have a perk which boost combo speed. Or have barb gear increase wep combo speed.

[Bortukali]

What I am saying is that if. . .

butcher/cyclone have no feat points to increase damage
there are no buffs running
there are equal aa points in butcher/cyclone
and the player has t3 2h weapon and t3 dual wield main hand

then the 2sec combo finisher of upheaval does the same total damage as the 3sec combo finisher of the cyclone upheaval.
This should not be the case.

all combo feats/aa/ and buffs aside.

considering only the finisher or any specific part of the combo is wrong to compare...
try this instead:
1º NO BUFFS, NO FEAT POINTS ANYWHERE, NO GEAR except weapons, and NO PERKS equipped except upheaval;

2º 2h weapon upheaval:
2.1- check the full damage (white damage + combo steps + dots)
2.2- check if, yes or no, for any critical hit, and if yes, for of any kind of damage, you have to repeat the combo

3º 1h weapon upheaval:
3.1- check the full damage (white damage + combo steps + finisher extra damage)
3.2- check if, yes or no, for any critical hit, and if yes, for of any kind of damage, you have to repeat the combo
3.3- check for any offhand hits, and if yes, discard them, because they are based on chance

4º Repeat steps 2 and 3 to get around 5 different results then calculate the average. And that is how you get the more accurate result for both combos, based only on the perks ranks and weapons used

5º Repeat all previous steps with different combinations of feats, gear, perks, considering critical hits, etc

Look at what can be feated for 1h weapon (reaver tree):
- ALL OF THE COMBOS have a chance for offhand attacks (extra damage between each combo hit animation),
- ALL OF THE COMBOS have a chance for extra damage when dance of death is active
- ALL OF THE COMBOS can inflict extra white hits from sever (although lower than level 20 barb main hand attack, useless we all know that, but still its extra)
- ALL OF THE COMBOS can activate the dots for impale ability (also active with any type of simple hit, no combo needed)
- CoS/Upheavel can be feated to increase starter damage, starter critical hit chance, combo critical chance, combo base damage
- wreck armor can be feated for extra damage on target and AoE, and also 100% chance critical starter
- whirlwind base damage increase
- jagged cuts/bone shatter dots damage increase
- overpower that basically is constantly used because the offhand chances are high enough and also the coldown is very very low
- haste ability for 80% damage increase (also works for 2h weapons)
- savage fury for 20 something% damage increase for 20 something seconds when feated for it (also works for 2h weapons)
- too many to count damage increase starting around 20% and going up with the number of enemies close by (also works for 2h weapons)
- reaver stance increase to 15stacks (also works for 2h weapons)


Now what can be feated for the 2h weapon (zerker tree):
- butcher/upheaval base damage increase
- reverse swing buff to increase base damage (also works for 1h weapons)
- rampaging to increase character base damage (also works for 1h weapons)
- devastation to increase chance of critical hits (also works for 1h weapons)
- rampaging horde to increase base damage based on the number of allies close by (also works for 1h weapons)
- thrist for blood to increase base damage based on allies attacking or getting hit (also works for 1h weapons)
- blood frenzy to increase base damage only if you are tanking
- welcoming death to increase base damage when target has less than 35% health

CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE??? i give you a clue, only ONE feat on zerker is specific to 2h weapon, rest is for any kind (even with THE ROCK from den)

NOTE: if you test on dummies of guild cities you must be careful not to hit more than one dummy

[throughthedoor]

As far as I can tell the main main increase to specific damage is increase damage and crit chance of cos and with reaver stacks they get finishing crit damage. There is also off hand chacne with unheval.

With butcher there is no real pending only buff

Both can be feated for 5% increase in damage on their side of the tree (sense it is the same for both, I negate both)

All buffs and procs can be used on both.

Tell me if I am wrong but the 50% slower cos upeval isn't worth the extra damage from the feat points. (speaking to Putch)