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Thread: Effects of hate

  1. #1

    Default Effects of hate

    I wondered if anybody has tried how much of an impact + hate has?

    One would assume that it is a multiplier of dps but by how much?

    If it is 1:1 then it would mean that a guard With 500 dps with 10% hate would hold aggro up to 550 dps. (If he did'nt use hate combos or hate abilities) I think that this is a bit low. Has anybody tested?

  2. #2

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    tbh I don't think anyone apart from FC know the numbers.

  3. #3

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    Hate has (almost) nothing to do with your dps, it affects your aggro output in a more direct manner.

    As said only funcom has the numbers, but in general the rule is that since guard has high aggro combos they are almost always better off sacrificing dps for hate.

    For a class like conq it is a bit more complicated, but for a guard it is just about stacking it.
    I am Stian ingame...

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civilix View Post
    Hate has (almost) nothing to do with your dps, it affects your aggro output in a more direct manner.

    As said only funcom has the numbers, but in general the rule is that since guard has high aggro combos they are almost always better off sacrificing dps for hate.

    For a class like conq it is a bit more complicated, but for a guard it is just about stacking it.
    You really don't think hate functions off of your dps at all? I'm aware of guards combos in particular that appear to have inherent hate values but I always assume hate * dps factors in somewhere.
    Baneric / Munok / Johnkruk / Tomjones / Elgranorgo

    US first kills - Arch Lector Zaal, Bat of Nerd Rage, Emperor, Cloud, and Entity.

  5. #5

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    There are many strange effects of hate..

    It seems like if you score a 500 glancing, normal, overwhelming and crit it adds different amount of hate.

    Debuff combo/spells seem to generate more hate than a normal combo/spell doing the same amount of dps.

    Some combos add hate without any other than text note on the description. Shield Slam is one of them. Tooltip of A Soul for our Feast combo says "foul incantations accompany this blow" but it is nothing else but a dps combo that adds life drain on self and group.

    Soldiers AoE taunts. Are they equally powerful? No +% hate on them. Different cooldowns.

    Healing adds a small bit of hate.

    It is not easy to understand this for a new player.

  6. #6

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    +Hate is important on Guards - far more than raw DPS.

    We do not know actual values, but I'm pretty sure it isn't a simple multiplier. A lot of the following is based on speculation, but should give you and idea why many think +hate gear is especially good for Guards.

    Combos like Overreach and Shield Slam most likely add a high inherent hate bonus. Let's say your entire Overreach 5 combo does 2k damage and took you 4s - this gives 500 DPS. Say an inherent 4k hate damage is added to this combo - this seems more likely than a multiplier since I've seen many low DPS Guards hold awesome aggro. This gives a total of 2k + 4k = 6k hate damage over 4s - so you should be able to hold out against a hypothetical 1.5k DPS. Now, the reason +hate is important is that it is likely applied to that rather large hidden inherent damage as well. 4k seemed like a reasonable value, but whatever the actual value, it is definitely higher than the DPS from a S/B Guard.

    * My baseline for the above speculation is a T4 Guard that does around 600 DPS is known to be able to hold off just over 2k DPS. DPS is expected to have a good bit of -hate, and uses their -hate abilities preventatively.
    Malaise-DT, Tabixis-Guard, Cocobel-Sin, Elari-ToS (pvp 4), Orsela-PoM, Aarva-BS (pvp 7)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Civilix View Post
    Hate has (almost) nothing to do with your dps, it affects your aggro output in a more direct manner.

    As said only funcom has the numbers, but in general the rule is that since guard has high aggro combos they are almost always better off sacrificing dps for hate.

    For a class like conq it is a bit more complicated, but for a guard it is just about stacking it.
    Ofcourse conq and dt benefit more from dps than guard, but ive noticed lately that i have higher aggro using heavy gear than couragus and fearless. The Guardians best friend is crits. If you want to maximize your aggro stack up critrating dont go blind on hate. If someone tells you diffrently their knowledge is not to be trusted haha.

    Ive also done tests lately and CoH and Shieldslam is not affected by hate its just a chunk of constant aggro. So increasing hate will only affect your normal aggro you get from hitting and irritate.
    Last edited by magnum92; 9th September 2013 at 21:29.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

  8. #8

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    This and this is what a dev once had to say about it. So, at the end of the calculation the entire hate thus far that came from damage output and hate modifications will be multiplied with some factor dependent on +N%-Hate-Modifiers. I don't know if these modifiers only include +hate that comes from things like Call to Arms or if hate from Hate Increase Rating is in there as well. Might also be that Hate Increase Rating is taken into the equation before that.

    I can't say how much hate exactly equals to how much dps. When it comes to equipping my Guard I've more like a gut feeling than actual numbers. And the statement of a dev who says that "+N% Hate Modifier is a lot more powerful that people might expect".

    I think on a Guardian aggrowise Hate Increase Rating is better than Combat Rating or Strength. I'm not sure about Critical Rating and Hate Increase Rating, but I think these two will go into some different factors that will be multiplied in the end, so I make sure that none of the two is too low.
    Defon (Guard)
    Nejoo (Guard) Areana (DT) Willamus (Conq)
    Ichkruchka (Demo) Defina (Necro) Defhid (HoX)
    Sagittaa (Ranger) Phaictan (Sin) Alunn (Barb)
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnum92 View Post
    Ofcourse conq and dt benefit more from dps than guard, but ive noticed lately that i have higher aggro using heavy gear than couragus and fearless. The Guardians best friend is crits. If you want to maximize your aggro stack up critrating dont go blind on hate. If someone tells you diffrently their knowledge is not to be trusted haha.

    Ive also done tests lately and CoH and Shieldslam is not affected by hate its just a chunk of constant aggro. So increasing hate will only affect your normal aggro you get from hitting and irritate.
    Of course that would be the case for belt and boots, since they have more dps and cdr than plate, and none of those pieces have hate. IMO, courageous shoulders/wrists hate is better than the little dps boost you get from conq wrist/shoulder for a guardian.

    The only real question at that point is whether conq hands with all the crit or guard hands, and then it would probably depend on the boss' resistance.

    Also, if you wear too much conq gear, you'll fall below 55% mit for t4 on aggressive guard builds, which IMO is more important for a guard since they don't have dt lifetaps and quick c/d on bubble like a conq does. Unless you have a really heavy mitigation build, which would defeat the purpose of stacking crit and dmg anyway.

    I also don't think it worked out for DTs and conqs the same way the dev posted above. 1% hate on a DT or conq does not equal the aggro of say 2.5% more dps, which is why all the conqs prefer the 2h sword from the entity vs. the one from memory cloud. IMO, the only reason a conq or dt should wear the guard gear is survivability.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillee View Post
    Of course that would be the case for belt and boots, since they have more dps and cdr than plate, and none of those pieces have hate. IMO, courageous shoulders/wrists hate is better than the little dps boost you get from conq wrist/shoulder for a guardian.

    The only real question at that point is whether conq hands with all the crit or guard hands, and then it would probably depend on the boss' resistance.

    Also, if you wear too much conq gear, you'll fall below 55% mit for t4 on aggressive guard builds, which IMO is more important for a guard since they don't have dt lifetaps and quick c/d on bubble like a conq does. Unless you have a really heavy mitigation build, which would defeat the purpose of stacking crit and dmg anyway.

    I also don't think it worked out for DTs and conqs the same way the dev posted above. 1% hate on a DT or conq does not equal the aggro of say 2.5% more dps, which is why all the conqs prefer the 2h sword from the entity vs. the one from memory cloud. IMO, the only reason a conq or dt should wear the guard gear is survivability.
    Im talking about boots,hands and belt, yes. And having above 55% mit is not only your opinion think everyone can agree on that m8.
    Moriala - The Ivory Tower

    [Youtube Channel]

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