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Thread: supreme lich

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    depends amount of crit rating you have. in pvp i have no issues getting instant cast icestrike reliably around every 14-15 secs, if i use full t4+crit potion its almost every 12 secs.

    weird part is these guys claiming withered perk is good...

    it hasnt changed in years it does same damage as blasphemous ruin its exact same spell same coeficients.

    diference is cooldown is 20 secs instead of 8 secs. so every 2 casts of withered you could have done 4 casts of blasphemous ruin.

    the extra efect of getting withered for instant cast icestrike still has the "global" 10 secs cooldown so using it doesnt automaticaly grant you instant icestrike unless you hadnt had one in last 10 secs wich pretty much makes this perk redundant given i realy dont need it to gain instant icestrike.
    it might be relevant if you cant reach due to gear/aa's enough crit rating to get the instant icestrikes reliably every 12-15 secs.

    i prefer chiling+decays, the extra dot on decays helps mana drain dt's.
    but when oposite team has good pom or multiple poms i prefer supreme lich, the light of path pom perk doesnt just make kb instant cast it removes cooldown to recast fear as well avoiding that fear is nice to avoid mitra searing eye to avoid its big hit+instant smite after.
    So, you only use the icestrike when you have the insant buff? than what do you do all the 9,5 secs while you waiting? gelid bones?

    PD:Im asking for pve.
    Last edited by xiulo88; 3rd September 2013 at 11:56.
    -> DT:Stiraqvcrn; Necro:Munyidora; ToS:Stiraqvaa; Guard:Stirameco; BS: Stiraqcanya, ...

    If you see one Stira wipeing a group or a raid Its me

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiulo88 View Post
    So, you only use the icestrike when you have the insant buff? than what do you do all the 9,5 secs wil you waiting? gelid bones?

    PD:Im asking for pve.
    in pve i use it after placing dots, in pvp i only use it if situation is safe enough to use it, it has a long cast.

    given i can reliably get instant cast every 14 secs i place dots, blasphemous 8 secs cooldown^^, use cc's place pestilencial blast to prepare burst.

    i mostly use and abuse icestrike on rare moments im not getting chased and can actualy sw safely on a crowd where bursting them down is what a necro does best from range.

    but like i mentioned withered perk might be a good choice if you dont have enough gear to reach crit chance to obtain witered reliably.
    FORUM PVP LVL 10

  3. #23

    Default Lich

    Its all in how you play. Many of the top necros on the servers use lich form.

  4. #24

  5. #25

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    So I just got back to the game after a very long absence. And everyone keeps telling me that Lich is worthless against a maxed out CB/DoN. However when I test it, full spec + gear and pets, full spec + gear and no pets, full spec + no gear, no spec + no gear et cetera et cetera. Lich form routinely, bordering on always, out parses CB/DoN. Not by an incredibly, eye-popping margin mind you. But even testing Lich + Ice Strike and CB + Ice Strike. Lich wins in the end. Using the only math I could find on the matter.

    [Base Spell Damage] + [Spell Coefficient] * [Magic Damage] =

    Does CB + Ice Strike hit harder? Yes, yes it does. It averages 200 pts more damage on a non-critical strike. And 1000 pts more damage on a critical strike. This, quite obviously, is because it has a +65% bonus to it's Coefficient. However, there is an extra 1 second added on to the cast time. And because of that, in my own personal tests of course, it entirely negates that +65% bonus.

    So, could one of you pro vet necros out there school me with some of their metrics on how exactly the combination of CB/DoN out performs the 7.5% Base Damage 45.5 extra Magic Damage of the Lich Form?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by LikeZoinksYo View Post
    So I just got back to the game after a very long absence. And everyone keeps telling me that Lich is worthless against a maxed out CB/DoN. However when I test it, full spec + gear and pets, full spec + gear and no pets, full spec + no gear, no spec + no gear et cetera et cetera. Lich form routinely, bordering on always, out parses CB/DoN. Not by an incredibly, eye-popping margin mind you. But even testing Lich + Ice Strike and CB + Ice Strike. Lich wins in the end. Using the only math I could find on the matter.

    [Base Spell Damage] + [Spell Coefficient] * [Magic Damage] =

    Does CB + Ice Strike hit harder? Yes, yes it does. It averages 200 pts more damage on a non-critical strike. And 1000 pts more damage on a critical strike. This, quite obviously, is because it has a +65% bonus to it's Coefficient. However, there is an extra 1 second added on to the cast time. And because of that, in my own personal tests of course, it entirely negates that +65% bonus.

    So, could one of you pro vet necros out there school me with some of their metrics on how exactly the combination of CB/DoN out performs the 7.5% Base Damage 45.5 extra Magic Damage of the Lich Form?
    This post still haven't received any reply. I'm curious and would love to hear a reply to this.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matram View Post
    This post still haven't received any reply. I'm curious and would love to hear a reply to this.
    I ran some numbers on this few months back. I seem to have forgotten to document it on Google drive. I might be able to do some quick testing to show some numbers later.
    Fass
    Professional northmen slayer of saga
    {Circle of Eternity}

  8. #28

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    I made a spreadsheet with some numbers. It's not 1000% accurate numbers and it only lists melee pets. I would say chilling breath + decays of nature is better as it does slightly more damage and it's more mana effective. 2 ice strikes = 3 ice strikes which means 1 ice strike mana pool less! And it does more damage overall.

    If I would spend hours and hours of comparing numbers I could come up with more accurate numbers. I'll just include some damage numbers here with sw buff to inflict maximum damage and then if you want to run the math you can see what is actual bestest dps.

    Chilling Breath
    Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 247 unholy damage.
    Your Flesh to Worms (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 251 unholy damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 2859 frost damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1222 frost damage.

    Lich form
    Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 257 unholy damage.
    Your Flesh to Worms (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 260 unholy damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 1754 frost damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 750 frost damage.

    As you can see by these numbers the ftw damage is +9/tick = 4.5dps increase
    Pblast is +10/tick = 3.3dps increase

    Fine you do +7dps roughly with pblast+ftw but you lose on out ice strike damage and decays of nature

    Chilling Breath
    Ice strike 750 = 375 dps
    Ice strike crit 1754 = 877dps

    Lich
    Ice strike 1222 = 407dps
    Ice strike crit 2859 = 953dps

    So.. you gain +7.8dps but lose out on 32 (from ice strikes) plus 35 (from decays of nature).
    That makes you lose out on 59.2 dps on only spells. If you add up the extra pet damage which at best was +16dps.. Then you still lose out on 43.2dps.

    In the end the difference might be you do 2050dps instead of 2150ish which is no big deal .
    Fass
    Professional northmen slayer of saga
    {Circle of Eternity}

  9. #29

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    Thank you for your testing and for publishing your results.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fass View Post
    I made a spreadsheet with some numbers. It's not 1000% accurate numbers and it only lists melee pets. I would say chilling breath + decays of nature is better as it does slightly more damage and it's more mana effective. 2 ice strikes = 3 ice strikes which means 1 ice strike mana pool less! And it does more damage overall.

    If I would spend hours and hours of comparing numbers I could come up with more accurate numbers. I'll just include some damage numbers here with sw buff to inflict maximum damage and then if you want to run the math you can see what is actual bestest dps.

    Chilling Breath
    Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 247 unholy damage.
    Your Flesh to Worms (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 251 unholy damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 2859 frost damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 1222 frost damage.

    Lich form
    Your Pestilential Blast (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 257 unholy damage.
    Your Flesh to Worms (Rank 5) hits Straw Man for 260 unholy damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) crits Straw Man for 1754 frost damage.
    Your Ice Strike (Rank 6) hits Straw Man for 750 frost damage.

    As you can see by these numbers the ftw damage is +9/tick = 4.5dps increase
    Pblast is +10/tick = 3.3dps increase

    Fine you do +7dps roughly with pblast+ftw but you lose on out ice strike damage and decays of nature

    Chilling Breath
    Ice strike 750 = 375 dps
    Ice strike crit 1754 = 877dps

    Lich
    Ice strike 1222 = 407dps
    Ice strike crit 2859 = 953dps

    So.. you gain +7.8dps but lose out on 32 (from ice strikes) plus 35 (from decays of nature).
    That makes you lose out on 59.2 dps on only spells. If you add up the extra pet damage which at best was +16dps.. Then you still lose out on 43.2dps.

    In the end the difference might be you do 2050dps instead of 2150ish which is no big deal .
    That's a very good evaluation, however I find that dps is very situational and almost every fight has to be approached differently. Take T5 yag adds for example, the adds die so fast that you only get maybe 3 ice strikes off with CB feated( the fourth one never even hit with 3 sec cast), but can get 5-6 off without it feated( 2 sec cast). In that instance CB is potentially lower dps. I agree that the difference isnt very much at all unless you have to deal with burst dmg fights where the 2 sec cast is much more reliable with hitting a near dead target.

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