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Thread: CtA & Ardent Battle Cry

  1. #11

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    Hey ringofset what is your guards name?
    Baneric / Munok / Johnkruk / Tomjones / Elgranorgo

    US first kills - Arch Lector Zaal, Bat of Nerd Rage, Emperor, Cloud, and Entity.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock25 View Post
    Hey ringofset what is your guards name?
    Do you actually think hes been in T4? And play a guard? And main tanked?

    No no no..

    Sorry..
    Rogue Angels Guild Leader and Progression Raid Leader
    http://rogueangels.guildlaunch.com

    Tmanku 80 Guard | Tmanil 80 ToS | Tmanosu 80 DT | Tmanbank 80 BS | Tmanfu 80 Demo | Tmanwu 80 Ranger | Tmanpope 80 PoM | Tmanpointy 80 Sin | Tmanbarb 80 Barb | Tmanfire 80 HoX | Tmannecro 80 Necro | Tmanblade 80 Conq | Tmanlite 80 Guard | Tmantosjr 80 Tos | Tmandemojr 80 Demo | Tmanthethird Saga Guard

  3. #13

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    I'm getting flashbacks to when samaellez badmouthed the conk nonstop when his forum name was ajrothman....

    Maybe in four years ringofset will be carried to pvp10 and end tier raiding too...
    I don't make points I make dents.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    IF and only IF Ardent Battle Cry + Call to Arms are BOTH RAID wide.. a guard would theoretically bring 1400~1500 DPS to a raid, depending on the raid it could be a bit more or bit less.

    If they are not, then the DPS gets cut down to 700 or so (including the Guards) and respective to the 6man group makeup.

    A DT still does (AND SERIOUSLY I CANNOT GET AROUND THIS FACT, what do you guys want from me? IT IS WHAT IT IS)... around 2200 DPS on Zodiac. And 5000 DPS on things like Nergal/Basilisk... I crap you not(from DT forums...not my data, but another DT's).

    I can tank any Boss in the game from T1-4, I've done it and it's easy. I CANNOT TANK WHEN THE GUY NEXT TO ME IS DOING 2200~5000 DPS and popping IRRITATES. Again, see this thread (and its for a LOT OF BOSSES not just Zodiac)> http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthr...181037&page=23

    I'm trying very hard to see another way around DTs... maybe I bring group buffs I thought? maybe I can bring debuffs? No no and no. It doesn't hold a candle to a Pajama wearing DT. And this Fiction that they die in 2 shots must also be resolved, they DO NOT DIE IN 2 SHOTS. They can tap for upwards of 500~1000 HP per SEC (<-Ridiculous I know, but it happens). And TEG (The Epic Guard) has used DT's (no GUARDs) on ALL the bosses in T4, without exception. If the Pajama wearing 9000 DPS DT is just a tad squishy on the emperor...THATS COOL! Cause we got a tank Spec w/ our little OT Dreads on Spec2.

    I'm done. I've tried EVERY possible way to find a reason to play Guardian. THERE IS NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. Everything everyone here said in support of a guard theres a counter... EVERY boss here can be tanked by a DT and EVERYTIME they will bring way MORE DPS to the table, regardless if it's a tali spec or a traditional tank spec. This class is broken. If you still believe they aren't then you are DELUDING yourself.
    Dude, your wrong!

    The guard class is very ideal for 6 mans and also raids.

    Your taking quotes from forum threads of which is the same as saying something is true based on it being from the internet. "Have you seen the commercial?"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc

    As I can say I've seen DT's hit ridiculous dps numbers. You are taking the best aspects from each side of the circle and then combining them into "DT's can tank anything in game and yet hit 3k dps single target" which is just not true at all.

    As far as finding the amount of dps for a raid or 6 man from a guards "40 and 42% weapon increases" from battle cry and call to arms. You can't honestly say or even predict the amount of dps increase it would give a 6 man or raid at all. For example:

    My sin when grouped with "conq, demo, guard, BS, Tos" hit 2900 dps single target on Atherbass "wing 3 first boss". Take those same exact group buffs etc, and put another sin in my position and maybe they do more, maybe they do less. End point, you can't predict it at all. It's a percentage of a toons weapon increase thus a prediction is impossible.

    Back to the point.

    The entire point of what you are saying is that a DT is better based on the fact they can tank and do alot of dps. Their are soo many more aspects to tanking then that.

    A Dt can not get even close the same burst aggro that a guard can.

    A conq can come close, but still can't compare to a guard on burst aggro.

    The ONLY place a DT shines is later in the fight where they over take the guard on potential aggro. If they die, guess what. The guard still gets aggro because the guard's can still out aggro any dps in the game.

    So please, roll a Guard class and then more players in the game will respect your opinion. If you have a guard class then cool, but don't just flame the forums with opinions when you can't honestly back it up man. Nothing but respect for you, but come on, your making it pretty hard to honestly defend.
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    Dude, your wrong!

    The guard class is very ideal for 6 mans and also raids.

    Your taking quotes from forum threads of which is the same as saying something is true based on it being from the internet. "Have you seen the commercial?"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bufTna0WArc

    As I can say I've seen DT's hit ridiculous dps numbers. You are taking the best aspects from each side of the circle and then combining them into "DT's can tank anything in game and yet hit 3k dps single target" which is just not true at all.

    As far as finding the amount of dps for a raid or 6 man from a guards "40 and 42% weapon increases" from battle cry and call to arms. You can't honestly say or even predict the amount of dps increase it would give a 6 man or raid at all. For example:

    My sin when grouped with "conq, demo, guard, BS, Tos" hit 2900 dps single target on Atherbass "wing 3 first boss". Take those same exact group buffs etc, and put another sin in my position and maybe they do more, maybe they do less. End point, you can't predict it at all. It's a percentage of a toons weapon increase thus a prediction is impossible.

    Back to the point.

    The entire point of what you are saying is that a DT is better based on the fact they can tank and do alot of dps. Their are soo many more aspects to tanking then that.

    A Dt can not get even close the same burst aggro that a guard can.

    A conq can come close, but still can't compare to a guard on burst aggro.

    The ONLY place a DT shines is later in the fight where they over take the guard on potential aggro. If they die, guess what. The guard still gets aggro because the guard's can still out aggro any dps in the game.

    So please, roll a Guard class and then more players in the game will respect your opinion. If you have a guard class then cool, but don't just flame the forums with opinions when you can't honestly back it up man. Nothing but respect for you, but come on, your making it pretty hard to honestly defend.
    Listen Schou, I've got nothing but respect for you as a guard, I've tanked with you a long while back and if you're still up to par...you have incredible aggro. But, listen to what you're saying, and again, I know you're just trying to defend the class you love.

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    The ONLY place a DT shines is later in the fight where they over take the guard on potential aggro. If they die, guess what. The guard still gets aggro because the guard's can still out aggro any dps in the game.
    This statement for example is wrong just by logic. If the DT died you didn't out aggro "any dps in the game", you see the DT is both a tank AND A DPS CLASS. I know it's stupid and it confuses people, it's because people (CORRECTLY) interpret each of the classes to a role. If they see a shield next to your name...they think "hey theres a tank". But DT's for some INSANE reason is not only a tank but the HIGHEST DPS CLASS IN THE GAME.

    So, when I'm tanking, I naturally gravitate to "account" for the DT as well... you see... put him under the "people I need to keep away from at all costs" like a barb or a sin or a necro. My raiding guild is pretty hardcore in this respect, brutal is a better term. The DPS goes ALL OUT...and tanks are expected to keep the DPS off em, even if that DPS does 3000 DPS (which is IMPOSSIBLE to keep aggro off of). The only way I was able to "keep up with my duties" was to discard my guard and just roll up/gear up a DT. I'm doing fine now trading aggro with three other DT's in the group concentrating only on keeping my DPS (and thus my taps) up and popping a irritate to trade aggro. I know this was done in your old guild TEG, and I know you felt left out of the rotation sometimes due to their tanking philosophy.

    Guardians need help. I wouldn't normally say this and just play something else (like I'm doing with a DT)... but I've never seen a class on AoC that's pretty much retired from it's main role (tanking in this case).

  6. #16

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    Dude,

    DPS is just that. Dps, if a tank class happens to do alot of damage while tanking then thats cool. In my eyes they are still considered a tank though.

    And again, you only took 50% of what I said.

    Holding aggro is only part of tanking. And GUARDS can hold well more burst aggro than DT's or Conqs. I'm not just simply saying the class doesn't need a little bit of a boost, but your saying they are completey useless all together. And that is just wrong!


    I prefer my sin to be grouped with a Guard over a DT!

    I get more burst dps without having to worry about pulling aggro. I get more damage by being grouped with them "a HUGE difference". It's just that simple!

    And yes, a well played DT can eventually pull aggro from me. And yes, it is annoying for me not to be able to pull it off of them on whim when I want. But truth be told, if they simply stop hitting for a second. I can get it and hold it again on my Guards.

    As I said, Yes they need a bit more aggro. No, they are not completely useless as you so want to lable them. They still have a very viable spot.

    Btw, who the heck are you in game? What guild?
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    So, when I'm tanking, I naturally gravitate to "account" for the DT as well... you see... put him under the "people I need to keep away from at all costs" like a barb or a sin or a necro. My raiding guild is pretty hardcore in this respect, brutal is a better term. The DPS goes ALL OUT...and tanks are expected to keep the DPS off em, even if that DPS does 3000 DPS (which is IMPOSSIBLE to keep aggro off of). The only way I was able to "keep up with my duties" was to discard my guard and just roll up/gear up a DT. I'm doing fine now trading aggro with three other DT's in the group concentrating only on keeping my DPS (and thus my taps) up and popping a irritate to trade aggro. I know this was done in your old guild TEG, and I know you felt left out of the rotation sometimes due to their tanking philosophy.
    Which "hardcore" guild has people do 3000 DPS yet tanks Louhi with 4 dread shadows?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyfisterbotm View Post
    Dude,

    DPS is just that. Dps, if a tank class happens to do alot of damage while tanking then thats cool. In my eyes they are still considered a tank though.

    And again, you only took 50% of what I said.

    Holding aggro is only part of tanking. And GUARDS can hold well more burst aggro than DT's or Conqs. I'm not just simply saying the class doesn't need a little bit of a boost, but your saying they are completey useless all together. And that is just wrong!


    I prefer my sin to be grouped with a Guard over a DT!

    I get more burst dps without having to worry about pulling aggro. I get more damage by being grouped with them "a HUGE difference". It's just that simple!

    And yes, a well played DT can eventually pull aggro from me. And yes, it is annoying for me not to be able to pull it off of them on whim when I want. But truth be told, if they simply stop hitting for a second. I can get it and hold it again on my Guards.

    As I said, Yes they need a bit more aggro. No, they are not completely useless as you so want to lable them. They still have a very viable spot.

    Btw, who the heck are you in game? What guild?
    You don't understand. You are a guardian, you are very last on the DPS totem pole which means if you're not tanking or holding aggro you're useless. PERIOD.

    What that means is that, even if one class has .00000001% more aggro anytime during the fight (and can tank) then you as a guard is completely useless.

    Now I understand your argument that Guards have the best burst aggro (which they do) and that this fact will make Guards useful on the fights where consistent DPSing is out of the question or "DPS can go all out from the beginning". But, DT's need at MOST 20 seconds to get up to "max DPS". And for the first 20 seconds the DPS can go 75%... after which they can go 100%. If you calculate the net gain over the duration of the whole fight... that burst aggro unfortunately is meaningless.

    Listen, the game can still be played with Guardians. And we're talking about finishing a fight in 9 minutes instead of 11 minutes. So it's nearly meaningless. But it's fiction to say that Guardians are needed anymore. It is fact, that IF you want to play to the ABSOLUTE 100% MAXIMUM efficiency that you need DT's and zero guards. Because they're lack of DPS and maximum potential aggro becomes a liability at this level of the game.

    And I know this might sound incredibly arrogant. But I think my guild and I are playing the game at such a high level that what I'm trying to describe here is flying over the heads of many people here. In fact, I think this is whats happening and the reason why we're having such a disconnect.

  9. #19

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    Rongofset tell us who your toons are in game or we should all assume you are just trolling and ignore you and your posts.
    Im Fat.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfSet View Post
    And I know this might sound incredibly arrogant. But I think my guild and I are playing the game at such a high level that what I'm trying to describe here is flying over the heads of many people here. In fact, I think this is whats happening and the reason why we're having such a disconnect.
    WHICH...AMAZING...GUILD...IS...THAT? And who is your guard that performs at such a godlike level yet didn't know what last stand was 5 months ago? What's so hard about answering such simple questions?

    To be honest I'm not sure if you're the best troll ever or just completely delusional.

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