Where's the T5?

[Iam5not8]

I understand from Bogus post that 12-man T5 will be more demanding.
All 12 will have to be top-notch players. So 12-man T5 will be more "elitist" than current T4.
Therefore in term of audience, that will be a poor allocation of ressources by Funcom.



PS : in a 24 man raid in T4, you can have average player (me first)

[Almuryc]

I agree. The new raid needs to be T4.5 or better. The only way to keep hardcore raiders from leaving this game is to provide some sense of progression. The gear doesn't need to be much better than T4. Just a little tiny bit. Khitia came out 3 years ago! Why have we been waiting 3 years for a planned T5? PvP was abandoned a long time ago. You can't stop developing for PvE as well or everyone else that's left will leave too!

[Redd]

Here we go again.

I'm amazed how you know 12-man will be more accessible than 24. It's plain wishful thinking without any rational arguments behind it.

Difficulty has nothing to do with group size. One thing that changes is just fight complexity and that increases possible ways to wipe, but not increase overall difficulty. We have already few 6-man fights that are harder (or with lower error margin) than any 24 fight. And in more complex fight - you know for tank-spank tactics there is t2, not t5 - in 12 man raid is less space for people you could carry through.

And there is things that blocks 12 man raid well. Those are 12 classes, where 6 are pure dpsers only.
And healing system, with low single HP output from single healer compared to mobs DPS.
And 95% population of rangers or hoxes (there is few good players who do good enough to not drop them) will be left behind.
Together with all tanks whou can't hold proper dps - can't tank at least 1.5k dps? Bye, Bye.
Or dps'ers and healers who can't dps - are you heal bot or can't do hight dps while focusing also on other tasks? Fired!

If Funcom would try introduce 12 man raids balanced for 12 callas raids, tactics become dull (no more splitting or if everything has to be possible to solo tank & heal) or will be raiding will be even more elite it is now.

Dummies.

Unless you want t2 fights with t4/5 loot, but then why are you not asking for 12 man raid instead of nerf hammer. It's too mainstream already? Or would put you in line with those who can't play.

THIS

/10chars

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

FC should upgrade T3,5 to T5. T3,5 is harder then T4 anyway (and very view play it). Just adjust T3,5 a bit , give T5 Token und change the loot to be slightly better then T4 (or even better - nerf T4).

With the very limited ressources FC has it would give the best ROI for them and a lot to do for all full T4 chars. It is a shame how Turan was wasted because of the wrong loot level...

i agree with this: fix the bug in the bat fight and upgrade the loot to t5. also put palace of cetriss at t5 level. this would make 6-7 bosses (assuming that palace will have at least 3-4 bosses), and it should be enough for a tier of raids...

[AngryBarb]

Fine! I'm an idiot then. I think I stated my reasons pretty clearly, but oh well, whatever.

So If I ask for 12 man raids I'm elitist?? That doesn't make sense, I have seen really motivated players in small guilds who can't get T4 whatever going because the need for 24 people.

But I guess I could ask for A T5 raid for 24 people that would be easier than T4 but with better loot... And then I would be a lazy lootwhore.
I have seen several people I know quit the game after having cleared t4 a few times. Why? because they got bored and wanted to do new stuff, but ofc only those few wanted to go and do that stuff since the loot is less attractive.

So now we have a Lurker and 3.5 sitting there looking pretty (At least it looks shiny in the vids) while gathering dust.

No, I'm not an elitist, but it's really boring doing the same crap over and over.

[-tomhet-]

Here we go again.

I'm amazed how you know 12-man will be more accessible than 24. It's plain wishful thinking without any rational arguments behind it.

Difficulty has nothing to do with group size. One thing that changes is just fight complexity and that increases possible ways to wipe, but not increase overall difficulty. We have already few 6-man fights that are harder (or with lower error margin) than any 24 fight. And in more complex fight - you know for tank-spank tactics there is t2, not t5 - in 12 man raid is less space for people you could carry through.

And there is things that blocks 12 man raid well. Those are 12 classes, where 6 are pure dpsers only.
And healing system, with low single HP output from single healer compared to mobs DPS.
And 95% population of rangers or hoxes (there is few good players who do good enough to not drop them) will be left behind.
Together with all tanks whou can't hold proper dps - can't tank at least 1.5k dps? Bye, Bye.
Or dps'ers and healers who can't dps - are you heal bot or can't do hight dps while focusing also on other tasks? Fired!

If Funcom would try introduce 12 man raids balanced for 12 callas raids, tactics become dull (no more splitting or if everything has to be possible to solo tank & heal) or will be raiding will be even more elite it is now.

Dummies.

Unless you want t2 fights with t4/5 loot, but then why are you not asking for 12 man raid instead of nerf hammer. It's too mainstream already? Or would put you in line with those who can't play.

totaly agree.
now give t5 and revamp erlic and lurker to be worth 24man raiding there.

[Redd]

What I dont understand are people who demand removing systems from the game, like "don't create 24 men raids" anymore because in their eyes it looks unreachable. How about making 12 man raids as an option for those fights where it would be possible regarding the mechanics and stuff and lower the rewards ofc?
Maybe that'd be an option, maybe not I don't know, but just saying 24 raids are outdated and no one does them from a perspective of a player who isn't even a raider himself sounds totally silly.

IMO, if FC has any long term plans for this game, next raid HAS TO BE T5, or call it whatever but loot/reward wise it has to be more attractive then T4 or it will be yet another waste of resources which are obviously very limited atm. Erlik, Lurker hello!

As some people has suggested already, for example we all know next raid will be Palace of Cetriss and it wont be a "full" raid instance consisting of 6-7 bosses like TAS and Jade Citadel are.
Why not make it as a first installment of T5? And then later on continue by adding new T5 raid isntance/s somewhere else like "forgotten" Temple of Ymir in Ymir's Pass, or something along those lines. Whole T1 is devided into 3 instances so I dont see the reason why T5 would't follow that logic too.


To sum it up, 12 man raids only as AN OPTION where it would be possible, and new raid has to be nothing less then T5 or whatever that is more attractive then T4 loot wise, and difficulty has to be challenging.

[bogus]

Isn't that the whole purpose?

It's but then won't be that more accessible. I didn't argued against 12-man raid even If I don't like that idea, since will cause many problems for everyone whos running now raiding guild.

I argued with myth 12-man t5 will be more accessible than 24-man t4. It won't, unless what I stated Funcom dumb encounters.

[Chillee]

I really enjoy the temple of erlic, but I know most players have never tried it and never will.

I wish they'd nerf it in a huge way and allow pugs to do it. Cut the trash in half, cut all the bosses health way down, nerf the archfiend and lectors damage, fix the buggy bat, whatever it takes to allow the guilds who are capped at T3 to take advantage of it. For guilds that are struggling with getting started in T4, it would provide a nice upgrade in gear, give them something new to do, and make T4 a little easier if they could get lector and bat down and get everyone the weapons and the soldiers the armor.

As it is, it's too difficult for all but a handful of guilds, and those guilds can do T4 and have no interest in it.

I'm not a proponent of nerfing instances, but as it is, this one sits there unused week after week and probably hasn't had anyone make more than a couple of honest attempts at it in several months.

[-tomhet-]

I really enjoy the temple of erlic, but I know most players have never tried it and never will.

I wish they'd nerf it in a huge way and allow pugs to do it. Cut the trash in half, cut all the bosses health way down, nerf the archfiend and lectors damage, fix the buggy bat, whatever it takes to allow the guilds who are capped at T3 to take advantage of it. For guilds that are struggling with getting started in T4, it would provide a nice upgrade in gear, give them something new to do, and make T4 a little easier if they could get lector and bat down and get everyone the weapons and the soldiers the armor.

As it is, it's too difficult for all but a handful of guilds, and those guilds can do T4 and have no interest in it.

I'm not a proponent of nerfing instances, but as it is, this one sits there unused week after week and probably hasn't had anyone make more than a couple of honest attempts at it in several months.

hell no.
no nerfs.
just fix bat and make loot worth going there.
agree on trash just remove it.