New 80 PvP: The Frustration

[kalston]

I know what you are saying. However, saying latency is an issue is the usual excuse people often use to cover up exploits. The fact here that most of the US players that claim latency issues just happen to be part of the small sect of players most of us suspect of using third party programs proves that... and when I say small sect...I mean maybe 6 or 7 people at most. That's not many.

The fact the EU servers are in such terrible conditions for playing is when people (again the small group) can get away with the most and pass it off as latency issues-

These are the conditions when cheaters thrive, once the mergers are complete and latency gets normalized, we'll see then.

However, since all the vids people are/(were) posting were all EU players, you can understand anyone who only plays on US servers would naturally think there is a higher population of cheats on your side...

Sure it's not an excuse for everything but then I did use words like "most", "vast majority" etc so I never denied the existence of a few real cheaters (just like in every other game anyway).

I know some of the people who quit or moved to a pve server because of the "cheaters" and let me assure you they are just some of the most awful players ever in pvp (the kind of guy who keeps spamming CCs on someone with immunities running or unleash all their burst on someone with a bubble etc). Funny thing is some people are now saying that the pve server has actually more cheaters (much bigger population so it could very well be true for all I know)

There's no "jump bug" on US servers, and for people who play on oceanic time there are plenty of latency issues for them on US servers. With just a little over 3,000 minis played, I have not witnessed any Ranger with a "jump bug" since probably late 2010, and I assure you that was not a visual bug then, just plain cheats. That player was eventually permanently banned by the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2kYzZLkVS8 this bug I mean (effect could be even bigger sometimes) - that was on euro servers with players who had a very low latency (much less than 100ms). It resulted in a lot of hack accusations for some of our best rangers. We hardly have any of those left now though so you rarely hear about it anymore. I suspect that the fact everyone has 100+ latency also greatly reduces the occurrence of this bug (that was apparently caused by a massive latency difference i.e. the ranger had 20ms and I had 100ms and I would see him move weirdly and make long jumps because of how fast he could chain his actions)

And you are being defensive. THe bottom line is this:

1. Your own players are in these very forums complaining about an over abundance of cheaters
2. Your very own players have defined most as an ethnic group (Russians)
3. You provided a site of video footage of cheaters
4. Video and photos have surfaced in the last few days with evidence of cheating
5. You stated you have seen cheating

What are you defending again? Lets just let this rest already, I am not sure what your point is anymore and its kind of boring. You can have the last word, and like I said, we will see when we merge. Until then, continue to name call, insult, or whatever else you have to do to feel you are right about whatever it is you are debating.

My point was only that Fury is not a "hacker server" and that the Russians are not a vast "hacker community" ruining the game like some people keep saying.

Is it really hard to understand that Europe being a much bigger playerbase there's bound to be more cheaters as well as more false accusations? You know we still have 2 active pve servers here (Crom & Mitra) and Fury is far from dead and still has some open world action, sieges, Bori fighting, 24/7 minis etc (even in summer) + the hm groups and pug raids.

[Xrubberducky]

I actually get called cheater all the time but its just my pro ranger skills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3T66Fjb_zE click click click click click

[Sarhal]

once the mergers are complete and latency gets normalized

Are we gonna get back in Eu and return to ping 20? :o

However, since all the vids people are/(were) posting were all EU players, you can understand anyone who only plays on US servers would naturally think there is a higher population of cheats on your side...

Answer is simple, because we care :> So alot ppl try find cheaters or other couple try understand aoc mechanics ^^

[Okkie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2kYzZLkVS8 this bug I mean (effect could be even bigger sometimes) - that was on euro servers with players who had a very low latency (much less than 100ms). It resulted in a lot of hack accusations for some of our best rangers. We hardly have any of those left now though so you rarely hear about it anymore. I suspect that the fact everyone has 100+ latency also greatly reduces the occurrence of this bug (that was apparently caused by a massive latency difference i.e. the ranger had 20ms and I had 100ms and I would see him move weirdly and make long jumps because of how fast he could chain his actions)

lol what was the point of that video???
Its just showing a player jumping away after using a combo??? there is no bug effect there is nothing wrong. That is the most stupidest attempt trying to prove anything...

This video tells me two things.

1. That players are so stupid they can't tell and understand how to "jump" away after a combo.

2. The video was made so justify actual cheats so when someone accuse one of using real cheats you post video and say hey! its not cheating...

[Suctum]

Are we gonna get back in Eu and return to ping 20? :o




Answer is simple, because we care :> So alot ppl try find cheaters or other couple try understand aoc mechanics ^^

Combat Mechanics? There is a global cool down on most CC's, combo molding no longer exists, there are only a handful of animations that are .1 seconds shorter than the cast time (effect takes place before animation finishes), almost all bubbles have an animation that's clearly visible...every class has at least 1 CC break...need I go on?

What you call "mechanics" have all been dumbed down to such a low skill level that almost anyone will understand them after 10 mini games or less...just understanding what classes are capable of and recognizing build types is basically 65+% of doing well in PvP.

When some bad player who does nothing but dies every game accuses someone of cheating, nobody is going to think twice about it.

When someone who pvps every day and is seen in minis (and doing well) and is viewed competent player claims they think someone is playing fishy...it's usually the case....at least in my experience.

And yes, they said once the merge process went through EU players would receive a more normalized ping, of what Funcom's "opinion" of a normalized ping is we will have to see.

[Zatochi]

What you call "mechanics" have all been dumbed down to such a low skill level that almost anyone will understand them after 10 mini games or less...just understanding what classes are capable of and recognizing build types is basically 65+% of doing well in PvP.

Thats called "skill". skill isnt only movement...

[Sarhal]

Combat Mechanics? There is a global cool down on most CC's, combo molding no longer exists, there are only a handful of animations that are .1 seconds shorter than the cast time (effect takes place before animation finishes), almost all bubbles have an animation that's clearly visible...every class has at least 1 CC break...need I go on?

What you call "mechanics" have all been dumbed down to such a low skill level that almost anyone will understand them after 10 mini games or less...

And exactly coz of this opinion we are getting superalot false accustations, everyone think he is expert and cant be wrong :>

But most ppl have no clue how to make debuff appear earlier than combo finisher ends, or get sliding effect on some combos, and alot alike things, so they are treating them as cheats always :>

It was a situation with a ranger in our guild, Redguard, he was doing jumps after combos, so was getting nice visual effect and like 90% of server pop and experieced pvpers were raging OMAGAD cheats, and there been a couple of very decent rangers who been participating in drama as well, and they was argumenting like "omj i play this class for 3-4-5 years and I know everything, this is IMPOSSIBRU without cheats". So yeah this case proved that majority are superbad and clueless :>

[kalston]

1. That players are so stupid they can't tell and understand how to "jump" away after a combo.

But that's exactly it. Most people are bad and clueless about the mechanics and all the little tricks there are (like jump-skipping and all the things Sarhal mentioned) and call "cheat" whenever they see anything like this.

The ranger Sarhal's talking about is the same one I was referring to earlier.

[Suctum]

And exactly coz of this opinion we are getting superalot false accustations, everyone think he is expert and cant be wrong :>

But most ppl have no clue how to make debuff appear earlier than combo finisher ends, or get sliding effect on some combos, and alot alike things, so they are treating them as cheats always :>

It was a situation with a ranger in our guild, Redguard, he was doing jumps after combos, so was getting nice visual effect and like 90% of server pop and experieced pvpers were raging OMAGAD cheats, and there been a couple of very decent rangers who been participating in drama as well, and they was argumenting like "omj i play this class for 3-4-5 years and I know everything, this is IMPOSSIBRU without cheats". So yeah this case proved that majority are superbad and clueless :>

So your basically defending exploiting, because their are a number of abilities where you do not need to complete the entire animation to get the added effect of a debuff or CC. While it can be done (Take the Khitai rank of a Guard's Stagger, snap kick, firey torment...charge canceling...) it's still working against the intention of the developers, and while exploiting is not the same as cheating, in the spirit of fair game play it's the same mentality. And let's be honest, this is not the same as combo molding, because almost all the combos/abilities you can do this with your only saving .01-.02 seconds...and damage still does not continue until the combo is complete. Considering they have a few lines in the player agreement about exploiting, it's really up to the GM if he would issue a ban or not depending on what you are doing, which could explain some of the bans which people thought were "hacks and cheats" and just came down to some simple exploiting.

Personally, I don't care, but if your going to do this I would expect you would be ready for complaints from those in the community who do not spend their time theorycrafting aoc "tricks".

*I am not in favor for or against exploiting, just stating the counter argument and telling it like it is. Personally, play the way you want to play but if you get caught doing something bad, then it's your own fault.

[bruceleroy]

So your basically defending exploiting, because their are a number of abilities where you do not need to complete the entire animation to get the added effect of a debuff or CC. While it can be done (Take the Khitai rank of a Guard's Stagger, snap kick, firey torment...charge canceling...) it's still working against the intention of the developers, and while exploiting is not the same as cheating, in the spirit of fair game play it's the same mentality. And let's be honest, this is not the same as combo molding, because almost all the combos/abilities you can do this with your only saving .01-.02 seconds...and damage still does not continue until the combo is complete. Considering they have a few lines in the player agreement about exploiting, it's really up to the GM if he would issue a ban or not depending on what you are doing, which could explain some of the bans which people thought were "hacks and cheats" and just came down to some simple exploiting.

Personally, I don't care, but if your going to do this I would expect you would be ready for complaints from those in the community who do not spend their time theorycrafting aoc "tricks".

*I am not in favor for or against exploiting, just stating the counter argument and telling it like it is. Personally, play the way you want to play but if you get caught doing something bad, then it's your own fault.

Exploiters will always think they are right no matter what. The GMs think differently, but they do nothing now a days. I recall getting suspensions for doing coppice kiting. My how things of changed.