BS combo damage needs a buff seriously

[Redmeth]

I personally saw Lurvi do 1.8k+ on Louhi in Nola's Black Legion raid. I was on my BS (Chengong) and did 1.3 and felt really happy about it. My jaw dropped to see him on top. I think he must have gotten a lucky streak on crits since it was a 45-50 second kill, crits weigh a lot.

He had T3 craft weapon. It was after combo skip fix.
I think he was also using the +5% crit and +700 CR pots.

I don't have the parser but I have no reason to make it up (I barely know him).

[Shax84]

You talk about 1800 dps on Zodiac, is that damage done only to Season bosses? In that case, quite impressive.

[Lurvi]

Im sorry I don't play currently so I deleted aoc and the parses from my ssd.

Do some thinking...

If you have a group with barb, conq, demo, guard, guard (all in the correct specs for groupbuffs)
With 2x rangers in raid putting Market Target, and poms with Radiant Glow. Proper toses doing their Storm Charge spam.

There is so much passive weapon damage, not to mention you'll start crying in happiness when you see the big buffs buffs from guards and ranger combined with your own rampage / sun / empowered renewal.

Dot will crit 1500+ on average, peaking above 2k. Whitehits crit around 3-4k on regular basis. Then you have combodamage too which can be quite impressive, like +10k on Shrewd Blow combined, but the Feral Growl is missed badly. It was our best combo imo, and now we are forced to use Vision of the sky.

Of course if you wanna provide top damage you'll use crit/combatratin-pots.

I have done thorough testing t3 craft vs. t4 dps blunt, and every single whitehit-crit with the t3 crafted one was higher than even the max t4 crit. Do you have t3 crafted blunt? It is bugged and produces whitehit-crits way above what should be possible. This does not apply for combo/dot damage though. So keep this in mind aswell if you haven't tried the crafted blunt yet.

Consider the possibilites before making judgement. When a bear can do 1600 solo on a strawman, why wouldn't 1800+ be within our grasp with some help from others? Much shenanigans is possible. Yes on each season boss and bosses only parsed. With the spider it can be tricky as you can't see his shields, but it's possible there too.

That said. Give other classes the same conditions and they'll exceed their "limits" aswell, but I believe bears are one of the classes that can benefit more from such optimization.

[QbusPuchatek]

My dot crits 1000+- max, 1050 max max

I use all pots - 2 with crit rating, combat damage (by rares buyed), Khitai str/crit rating damage, stamina/mana combat rating potion, even Jiang Shi path of enlightened buff.

no Vision of sky - but hello 30% makes so much difference?
i have ONLY? t3 blunt (and nearly full t4 stuff).

Misssiugah said t4 damage are higher then t4 crafted, but now i dont know ...

""It is bugged and produces whitehit-crits way above what should be possible"" anyone can confirm it? whites makes biggest part of damage

but still cant believe is cosmic difference between t3 and t4/t3craft, but dont deny it is possible

thanks for explain.

[Lurvi]

Misiuggah is both correct and incorrect. I did extensive testing, 200 whitehits with one blunt, then the other. The results were clear as day:
For combodamage, normal whitehits and dot damage, the t4 blunt has marginally more damage. Thing is...
I didn't believe it myself until I tried it out, but there is something wrong with the crafted blunt and whitehit crits (only the crits, weirdly enough)
Even the lowest of whitehit crits with t3 craft were higher than the top whitecrit I could achieve with the t4 one, so something is terribly wrong.

If your dots only hit 1000 per tick you don't have a good enough group to buff you. The power of your blunt plays a big part here too, cause it's the determining factor for how much you gain with every weapon damage% buff. Start using Internal Bleed II if you don't do already. The dot will have higher uptime, and scale to tick higher than rank IV when you get a certain ammount of "sheet dps" in your combat tab.

Before I'd sit on information like this to benefit by myself, lol, but since I don't play anymore it hurts me to see the community in agony. I try and help, clear some things out ^^

[EnReX]

frekain AFJ'ers lying to me.. ^^ and i went straight on.

Yet again, they were not all wrong, you did top it sometimes? or you were atleast in the top dps. So then i can freely call out -> L2P issues on the other qq'ing BS? I guess so, but i enjoy the rather friendly/educational turn this thread has taken, so I shouldn't interfere all that much.

[Lurvi]

It's all cirumstantial.

Our sins / barbs / conqs were told to keep calm when we were learning t4. Me on the other hand... In a fully stacked group purposedly built to boost my damage?

Critstreaking with your bear?
Not to worry. Keep on hitting. What will the tanks have to say in their defence if you pull the boss off them
(does not apply for when boss was just pulled...That's nearly guaranteed agro if you get lucky crits like 4k whitehits + dots + finisher crits)

This way you can go pretty high in the dps list, even 1600 will get you in top 8 many times. Of course anyone that wants to beat a bear will do so, but sometimes you'll be able to shine if you put some effort into it.

I repeat what I said earlier, bears damage is nearly at the bottom if you want to make a list of "what's possible", but the leap to the top all isn't that big!
If sins and conqs peak at say 2200 (don't know if it's the case, but could be), bears are not too far behind. A fair balance to me.

As for PvP, I understand OP. At times it can be frustrating. With comboskip fix we lost alot of controllable burst, which kinda was what we had going for us. Now it's mainly about if you crit or not.

[Korando-AoC]

In my experience BS is separated by at least 200-400 DPS from Necros / Sins / Carnie Conqs in melee favorable single target fights (like Saddure in MC), if we all go full nuts and with no particular group adjustment for one specific player (I mean sometimes you can get buff stacks, sometimes not, depending how raideader has adjusted groups).

That's why I say that Bear Shaman topping parser in a top raid group is just impossible or very very very rare (favorable group setups, crazy lucky crits, blue crit and combat rating pots etc).
It can happen once of course, but it can't be said that that is rule.

Pug raids are totally different of course.
Since the gap is not so high a geared BS in an average pug can easily top parse (seen many times up to T3; T4 pugs don't generally happen so who knows.. but I guess that a pug where you see a BS top parse on General Sheng can't go that far ).

I'm not sure what are the limits of BS on some fights.
On Zodiac for example in my guild we are used to have a guard solotanking, while BS mostly goes full healing (Bears perk, T4 BS gear - not barb gear -, no care of boss shields etc).
It's a tactic that works perfectly, of course a raid group or tactic should not be setup to let a BS go full out generally .
In that situation 1.4K DPS single target can happen many times, so I imagine that with a different setup (VotS, check shields etc)
200-300 DPS could be quite accessible.

I'm not completely sure about old version Louhi too (that's why my excuses to Lurvi), cause I'm quite a recent player and when I have ran that fight (quite) regularly my BS was not geared / experienced enough to check the limits.
Anyway 2K DPS seemed very out of my possibilities, but that could be a L2P issue for sure.

Anyway once again the point is this: Bear Shaman is fine as it is, there is no need for buffs.
But please don't go around saying that BS can regularly top parsers in top raiding guilds cause that is very wrong, whatever is your skill.
My skill can not be enough of course, but that's not about one specific player skill, even if the shammie is Lurvi that is impossible.
At the opposite, it's true that BS DPS is objectively at the bottom if we compare all classes in normal situations. Fact is that in some situation and with some tweak / skill etc other classes are not so far (I have seen barbs lower than BSs in many memory cloud fights many times, and BS be around 5th on parse). So a buff of BS DPS could be very negative for other classes, barbs first of all (Carnie conqs would need a nerf, but this is another story).

Peace and love

[Lurvi]

please don't go around saying that BS can regularly top parsers in top raiding guilds cause that is very wrong, whatever is your skill.

Im not disputing that. Noone can.

Only wanted to shed some light how I feel about the situation. Cause my case on with Zodiac is we stack weapon damage buffs for DTs to solotank it, and a bear is a natural part of that group. So things can happen there.

5k whitehit crits, ~2k dot ticks, 11k Shrewd Blow. To take it to the very extreme. Not a normality, I only mention what's possible here. Other classes can't benefit the same way as a bear is my take on it.

Stop mentioning skill all the time. Not relevant when you want to look at these things objectively. It's not about me or you =)

[m4gg0t]

I mainly made this post from a PvP point of view. Don't really care much about PvE damage cause any other decent class can get much higher dps easier then us