What can help pvp

[K4nnyc]

You forgot LO needing another nerf.
And you forgot VOM needing a nerf.

Across the board most classes have feats or AA that are useless or broken or just not viable.

So it's quite a large issue that needs to be addressed. I suggest Funcom sit down and sort out the huge mess of pvp/balance and the broken and irrelevant feats/AA.

[-tomhet-]

You forgot LO needing another nerf.
And you forgot VOM needing a nerf.

Across the board most classes have feats or AA that are useless or broken or just not viable.

So it's quite a large issue that needs to be addressed. I suggest Funcom sit down and sort out the huge mess of pvp/balance and the broken and irrelevant feats/AA.

those are actualy a bit more delicate.
sins realy need a boost to melee survivability lotus overload is quite needing an adjustment ofc, but to be totaly honest the thing sins have wich is far more op realy is face stab from hide it does an average of 3k dmage on both hits combined from face stab and can pass 4k if both fs hits crit, its what makes "pro" sins stalk around in hide waiting for aod to come off cooldown; inicial 4k from hide+aod is instant win.
its actualy some similarities with demo both have 2 end feats wich arent worth feating and both have a few abilities wich need a nerf while others might need a boost.

vom only realy needs the 125% crit damage vom buff nerfed, if its too nerfed dt's become obsolete just like that.
and its same deal here as well 2 end feats wich arent an option to feat, but a bit more depth needed to make class viable to work without vom, it might actualy need some sort of new mechanic granting dps procs like barbs and bs's get when atacking like rampage on bs or the barb stances.
right now you touch void of madness in anyway and you might just totaly break class.
what dt's have wich is realy overpowered in the mana drain from using covenant invulnerability it can neutralize totaly magic dealers when used adquately, would rather have this trigger obscene amounts of protection then current mana drain amounts wich gimp oposite team completly of mana so easily.

wich yet again points to where are the class revamps?

[Korando-AoC]

exclude hoxes from that because they are highly depedant of a good team to shine.

Hox was excluded from my comment, when I wrote "mages" I was writing about demo / necro.
Hox is not one of most hated class in pvp, even if skilled hox can really shine even in current state.
There are just few very skilled players playing hox in PvP, probably because class requires more skill than necro/demo (I don't play hox, it is my assumption; as I assume that box needs revamp since many exp players have been asking for long time for it. EDIT: Tyfon suggestions for example; one of the hox which really shine even now).

necros get hated because they have a 42 second dot wich a lot of people abuse by using lame gameplay of avoiding combat dotting and sw to do as much damage as possible so they get kill credit even if they didnt realy contribute to anyone's death.
efectively a lot of players are still doing that and then come post screens of high kd in minigames wich were obtained by abusing this lame dot; all other complains about necro dots are ill founded and just stupid people trying to lobby.

Your blame about players is worthless.
Players abuse of that dot because Funcom created it.
Since you agree that its mechanic is terrible, the 40sec dot should just be removed from game (the only solution to avoid players use it).
Problem is that then Funcom should review necro gameplay, since that dot is the main source of kills for necros in pvp, and by just removing it there would be a lot of QQ.
Funcom should anyway consider to remove that dot, or drastically change it, when (and if) they will work on necro revamp.

anyone claiming waves of flame doesnt need to vanish isnt interested in balancing anything in pvp: further more the gameplay of spamming this one spell is even further degrading to an already boring class.

No, please don't make personal comment about intentions.
My comment was really honest and my real opinion.
I like this game and I have a strong interest in class balance.
Most times the reason why people claim for nerfs is their error in tactic / position.
Think about this example: I have killed you many times in minigames while you were carrying flag alone with your DT with kb and WoF. The reason why you died is not WoF beeing OP, but you playing as flagbot in a group where no one is focusing victory and everyone is trying to kill wrong targets (= bad group and your wrong gameplay).
I agree anyway that WoF needs some nerf, but try to think things from a different perspective, it's best way to learn from errors.
To assume that you already know everything, that you play the right way and to make preconceptions about other players intentions (both in game and on forum) is not really a good way to improve.


Overall your post was anyway right.
I'm just sad cause you made assumptions about my intentions, which I honestly wanted to avoid.

[Manczurow]

- remove retards necro bombs
- change hide system

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Hox need something for better surv , and faster animations

[Bibik]

- change hide system

I don't know if it's related, but i find the OOC system is totally screwed since sprint revamp : people can exit combat and in less than a second going to hide (if not under DoT effect ofc). I even see rangers going to hide in a fight to mezzshot their target. Not counting the benefit of OOC regen or OOC movement skills.

[-tomhet-]

Think about this example: I have killed you many times in minigames while you were carrying flag alone with your DT with kb and WoF. The reason why you died is not WoF beeing OP, but you playing as flagbot in a group where no one is focusing victory and everyone is trying to kill wrong targets (= bad group and your wrong gameplay).
I agree anyway that WoF needs some nerf, but try to think things from a different perspective, it's best way to learn from errors.
To assume that you already know everything, that you play the right way and to make preconceptions about other players intentions (both in game and on forum) is not really a good way to improve.


Overall your post was anyway right.
I'm just sad cause you made assumptions about my intentions, which I honestly wanted to avoid.

i dont think ill ever bother grabing another flag in any minigame ever again its pointless, no one helps you no matter what you do.
its funny i used to hate tanks who didnt go for flag and lost count how many flags i carried on my necro because tanks were too busy rezpad farming lowbies.
quite true im learning to play dt in pvp, but i still like it a lot its just a real pain that there is no teamplay in aoc anymore since they removed premades, everyone is doing their own thing and its only enjoyable when you have a friend in same team who actualy backs you up in trying to win minigame objective.
in that aspect its much easier to play necro or pom i can help flag carriers deliver or even just stay protecting flag and have a much higher win loss minigame stats doing that then on tank trying to actualy win.

what you post and what you do ingame are totaly different things, if you want a personal atack you wont get one, i would rather ask you play more for the team and less for kd and then actualy we might even start considering making premade teams to fight other guilds.

i can back up my claims on waves of flame with numbers done it in the passed its easy to do it again, on tanks it crits insainly hard does loads of hits per cast and can crit past 900 easily very often in the middle of all huge amount of damage ticks it has on my dt with pvp5 gear+tas cloak.
do i realy need to do it again, again and again?
i guess i should if there is one thing i know as fact:

repeat a lie a million times and it becomes a fact for the ignorant.

on any other class it gets higher its as retarded as grip of death used to be; its demos instant win button wich they dont need given class has more then plenty of gimmicks going for them already most powerfull one is the instant kb, wich imho all instnt kb's should be removed from game and have generalized casting time for all kb's at same time batter aside/clobber time.

waves of flame
taking the shot
face stab from hide
flesh to worms lasting 42 seconds
necrotic bombs
range of necro pets
instant kb's

all of it has to get changed.

[Korando-AoC]

i dont think ill ever bother grabing another flag in any minigame ever again its pointless, no one helps you no matter what you do.
its funny i used to hate tanks who didnt go for flag and lost count how many flags i carried on my necro because tanks were too busy rezpad farming lowbies.
quite true im learning to play dt in pvp, but i still like it a lot its just a real pain that there is no teamplay in aoc anymore since they removed premades, everyone is doing their own thing and its only enjoyable when you have a friend in same team who actualy backs you up in trying to win minigame objective.
in that aspect its much easier to play necro or pom i can help flag carriers deliver or even just stay protecting flag and have a much higher win loss minigame stats doing that then on tank trying to actualy win.

Please don't write that carrying flag is pointless.
More good tanks is one of things which could help PvP actually.

Personally I sincerely judge tanks who score 15/0 every mini and never get flag very bad players (my personal way to judge a tank player, many disagree of course).

You should consider that:

1. There are minigames which can't be win because of high unbalance. Good tank should try at least 1-2 times to carry falg, but beyond a certain limit there is no reason to play sometimes.
I hate players who don't risk even 1-2 deaths to try to win the game (another category of terrible players) but when it's evident that you have no chance even if you suicide to keep your tank alive, then it's not worth to play.

2. Carrying flag needs skill. It's not just "go enemy flag room, take flag, run straight to your room / pad".
Tank should know how to position himself (on the map and considering other players position) to be able to kill / support / survive while holding flag.

3. Tank needs at least 2-3 players in group which try to win, he can't win alone ofc. You are right about this, and this is actually one of the biggest pvp problems: most players generally focus ONLY their k/d.
I care about my k/d (whatever you think, only at some point; I like dieing a reasonable amount of times if it's the trade-off to win the game), but I literally hate players who don't risk at least some deaths (unfortunately I'm very easy to rage/QQ in PvP, but this kind of players is really the one which makes me rage absolutely the most).
Anyway, if no one in your group shows to be interested to win after 1-2 tries, than it's your gameplay fault if you continue to try get flag and die many times; not one reason to claim for nerfs (sad.. but true).

4. Good tanks sometimes are able to motivate rest of group to play for victory. It's hard... but it's awesome when your group stops running around trying to kill every clothie/undergeared player which shows in front of them, and actually teamplay.


In short, I love good tanks, we need more of them in minigames .
They are sometimes able to give a reason to play a minigame as it is supposed to be played (for victory) so they are definitely something that can help PvP.


About your claims of things to change, I quite agree on all your list (WoF included), but you are still over/under estimating some things imo.
You didn't list soldiers survivability (gear / bubbles).
Also I find wrong that you list demo WoF and not Bindings of the Skylord (it's just an example about one class I know).

About the rest, this is not the right forum.
I'm getting used to these comments, but you should get used to not post them.

[EmSi86]

when talking about demo you must have forgot about unleash the underworld ... on my nearly 30% prot barb build it hit me for close to 6k crit with another op skill like let them burn it can kill even good tanks in seconds and its all range spells - ltb hit sometimes on nicely geared demo for 2,5k crit a tic

i agree that wof is op but its some kind of game mechanic that let you know if you come close to demo you will get hurt - 8meters - close ... just the same like with necro - blashpemy or gangrenous stench so best way is to have sin or ranger taking care of such a threat, ofc i saw many times agresive demos playing on wof aa perk and getting kills like crazy but its about setup in minis

and i think biggest problem is now is gear disbalance - especially t4 that cant be compered to gimp t3 pvp - which will change with future unchained mini games i hope

and yes necros dots are huge missunderstanding with just ftw and pb on some low prot chars with well geared nec casting it its matter of time for him to get kill/frag, i was once downed to 15% on nearly 10k hp 20ish % prot toon by pvp 5 necro using pvp gear, it was open world and i wanted to run to jump on him from hide or smth and lose the damn dot - and i know it wasnt sw cos some dots didnt crit but 600 and 800 crits from those dots are just plain stupid, all other characters gets their dots further in the game (barb have to be close to 40) and epsecially for meeles who have to be close to target to apply it and doesnt give that score/effect then 25 meters range ftw/pb/motd combined with sw crit thing can be more then lethal plus i bet that went in to game code by mistake since many mobs have simillar abiltities and simillar to ftw skill has one boss in cistern or was it main system? and only last 12ish or smth secs and that is to long imo for 6 sec barb dot and others as well

[-tomhet-]

You didn't list soldiers survivability (gear / bubbles).
Also I find wrong that you list demo WoF and not Bindings of the Skylord (it's just an example about one class I know).

About the rest, this is not the right forum.
I'm getting used to these comments, but you should get used to not post them too.

that is not accurate at all.
correct version is pvp gear is crap and needs to be re-evaluated for all classes from soldiers having too much protection and not enough dps, along side healers, and mages having no worthwhile dps stats at all, somewhat similarly rogues share same issues as mages in pvp armor department.

and pvp weapons except shields are utter crap. and reality is t3 crafted pve weapons are best pvp weapons along side t4 weapons.

so plz funcom wake up and revamp all t2&t3 pvp weapons and pvp armors.

log your dt and do some minigames with him.

[Jurski]

lol so conq and pom are fine?

also StA is fine?

agree with stuff that has been brought up but kinda weird two of most OP classes are pretty much excluded..