The logic behind T4 gear and the need to adjust its stats.

[Binderato]

You're the one doing most of the complaining....

You're getting unchained. How is that not enough?

Unchained? Right because everyone will just throw away their gear and play unchained

guarantee you the first time these players with top notch gear who thinks they are good plays unchained and realized how bad they are they won't sign up again.

Also unchained mini isn't the only form of pvp.

Open your mind.

[-Nightshadow-]

It's very clear who the PvEers are here when they say "just increase pvp stats! It's all good!" Clearly they haven't PvPed in a very long time.

It's been said hundreds of times: STOP INCREASING THE GEAR GAP. You can't increase the stats of gear and expect new players to ever be competitive. It WILL NOT happen.

I agree that PvEers need to suck it up when it comes to getting nerfed in PvP. Putting PvE stats on your PvE gear will not harm your PvE experience at all. I just think some PvEers with t4 gear are upset that they won't be the best in PvE AND PvP anymore. You guys do your PvE, we'll do our PvP.

EDIT: Not to mention that unchained minis will make PvP gear practically useless while PvE gear will remain viable. It's very clear what needs to happen here.

[Anubium]

Funcom should not nerf pve gear for pve. Period.

Pvp gear should have a new level by now and maybe some sort of 'super' mini for the hard core pvp 10s plus. New players can go to the unchained side so they don't have the big gap.

Funcom has a fix for the gear imbalance and that's unchained. If that doesn't work, then how else are you going to balance the new player with the old? Nerfing t4 gear isn't going to do it. Boosting up t3 gear is possible, but that would make the pvpers complain more.

A lot of people moved to Set because they have a higher population. Maybe pvpers should consider just why Set has a lot more people than Tyranny does right now. And so should Funcom.

[Anubium]

And if everyone picks unchained over regular minis...then that should put out a visible signal for Funcom and pvpers also.

I don't really care how Funcom fixes the gear imbalance with pvp as long as they don't damage pve gear in the process.

[Suctum]

Funcom should not nerf pve gear for pve. Period.

Pvp gear should have a new level by now and maybe some sort of 'super' mini for the hard core pvp 10s plus. New players can go to the unchained side so they don't have the big gap.

Funcom has a fix for the gear imbalance and that's unchained. If that doesn't work, then how else are you going to balance the new player with the old? Nerfing t4 gear isn't going to do it. Boosting up t3 gear is possible, but that would make the pvpers complain more.

A lot of people moved to Set because they have a higher population. Maybe pvpers should consider just why Set has a lot more people than Tyranny does right now. And so should Funcom.

People moved to set for then t3 weapons. Now, that T4 is openly done by most guilds, that is what they are here for. Population moved from pvp servers to gear up for pvp because they realized it would be much easier to get these items using the pve population.

Even before the first went, we all knew the pve weapons were better than the pvp ones. Now, t4 armor is basicly the new pvp armor for most classes. That's why people are on set. If you think people enjoy grinding the same 6-mans and raids for months and years on end- most pvpers do not. They do so because the pvp gear is outdated mostly, and 90% of the pvp 10 weapons garbage.

There are plenty of players who I see who because of being full t4 and taking advantage of that, do much better than they would with actual pvp armor. Most of these people lack any kind of pvp level at all, 2, 3, 4, and maybe 5 is the highest you see them. Then I see someone with the exact same pvp level, playing better and smarter, but just getting trashed on because pvp T1 armor is so bad.

Does pve armor need to be nerfed? No, but pvp armor needs to be looked at. While I don't believe gear progression should be a huge pvp factor, you can't expect any pvper who grinded to 10 be happy about unchained giving everyone the top pvp level armor because they basicly wasted their time. Pver's however, want to not only protect their armor progression but defend using it in pvp when they spent hardly anytime progressing in that field. The attitude of the Pver is that they worked hard for their progression, and if they decide if they want to pvp, then to compete with the pvpers they feel they need the armor advantage. In truth, the pvp armor is trash except for tanks, and pvper's are scrambling for t4 armor to compete with the pve crowd. The euro's figured this out much sooner...and everyone is geared.

You shouldn't be able to pve progress and instantly start better off than someone who fought their way to pvp 5 and is stuck with inferior armor if they did not pve.

They need to adjust the pvp armor to be on par with anything you can get in pve, that way with equal progression from both sides it balances out. Right now, if you grind pvp 10 your rewards are much less than someone who shows up for t4 once a week especially with a fight which is basicly a loot piñata.

Unchained mini's on Set I believe might be popular with new players, players who play solo and do not progress, and pvpers. It will NOT be popular with the gear reliant base of players which infest current minis. These people will try unchained a few times, see they do not do well or as well, and go back to regular gear based minis. I have been playing long enough to know how the population will act...after a few months unchained will be about as popular as the B&G servers.

I think unchained is not a bad idea, but unless it brings some kind of progression such as battle stats, leaderboards, tournament social rewards, ect.. it will just die out. Very few people pvp just for pvp sake. But saying Unchained minis will rebalance pvp? No, it's just another avenue people can take. The PvP armor must be looked at, tested, and changed to be competitive with T4 armor for PvP. You seem to want to keep pvp armor the way it is while rewarding players with gear earned in pve which is superior to most pvp armor at much less of a grind and investment. You do realize other than the addition of T2 pvp gear (which is only 5% less effective than pvp t3 gear and not noticable), the pvp armor has not been updated since 2.0. There has been no improvement in pvp armor since the release of GS, while pve armor has received several levels of improvement. Don't nerf the T4 armor but do nothing with pvp armor? That's an outrageous argument. PvP armor is 30 updates behind, the stats must not only be adjusted, but updated from 2+ years ago.

Does that make sense?

[Mathieulombardi]

Anubium honestly, you don't pvp and don't understand the issues. Yet you're always talking in pvp threads about `opinions that are usually far off.

You're the one doing most of the complaining....

You're getting unchained. How is that not enough?

Complain b/c there's something wrong, vs complaining when there's no problem. Obvi diff there.

Suctum said it all.

[Anubium]

I know I don't pvp and I already said I don't pvp...I am talking about people asking Funcom to nerf t4 gear so that its not overpowering in pvp anymore.

They can change the stats for pvp but I am going to fight them changing the stats for pve on t4 items.

Or boost new pvp stuff. I don't care as long as pve doesn't get hit again by pvp changes.

[Suctum]

I know I don't pvp and I already said I don't pvp...I am talking about people asking Funcom to nerf t4 gear so that its not overpowering in pvp anymore.

They can change the stats for pvp but I am going to fight them changing the stats for pve on t4 items.

Or boost new pvp stuff. I don't care as long as pve doesn't get hit again by pvp changes.

PvE has never been hit with any PvP changes. Even with class rebalances very few changes affected PvE. The most that has changed for PvE is that agro went from mainly hate to dps built, which is why you see so much crit rating and crit damage rating on armor now for every class, since Funcom does not make armor that differentiates between archetype when it comes to those 2 stats.

PvP'ers have been hit with nerf after nerf though, combat slowed, skill based combat almost eradicated, sprint revamp and staggers so people can land combos, combos down from 5 steps to most being 2 steps, no combo molding, ect... every change has reduced the game from skill base to gear based for the casual/pve crowd to pvp.

Even all the raid content has been dumbed down so it's easier to complete. Rare's from K6 drop in batches of 6, 2, and even possible to get a few from solo instances, where when 2.0 was released you got only 1 at a time.

Only update in 2+ years for PvP was T2/T3 PvP armor, bori, body parts, sag, and pvp mounts. Updates for PvE...2.0, Ardashir, T3.5, T4, Solo rare instances, multiple unchained K6 with more coming, DS, Wyrm...need I go on...

All people are asking for is that T3 PvP gear be just as viable as T4 gear since the end progression for PvE is better than the end progression for PvP. They should be equal at least, although PvP armor should ultimately be better for PvP since that's what it is for and how it is earned.

As for Geldour's example:

What if one day your T4 armor was completely inferior to PvP t3 armor, and you had to go grind from PvP 1 to 10 to be just as effective as you used to be in your T4 armor.

You would be mad I'm sure since now because you don't enjoy that type content your regulated to doing it in order to stay current on your gear so you can complete the content you want to do, which is pve.

Get it?

[-tomhet-]

once upon a time.

people played virtual characters in low fantasy world of hyboria based on old myths and legends of old pre-christian europe.

they rediscovered the power of better armor and weapons and cried rivers about it.

right from start they discovered that stacking magic gems would enable them to kill so fast that some people developed a god complex.

then the mighty programer gods hidden in R'lyeh said no! enough. and these might gems were nerfed into stinking feces.

later they discovered epic kesh bosses droped shiny blue armors and people farmed pve for pvp advantage.

and for a long time people just cried nerf this and that and delete tos storm crown and grip of death on necros else my imba pve gear dont work in pvp!

but alas skill prevailed and the mighty warriors were presented with pvp gear wich made them Übermensch against the epic keshatta geared players, and pve'rs cried oh noes this pvp gear is too strong i will not pay a cent more to this game im going to go back to wow cause doing combos is to hard and its too many spells and buffs and debuffs im confused.

so for some time galadh and his scum friends reigned supreme with only the mighty empire who were professionals at doing naked rp in battlekeeps to gain faster pvp xp to be able to "compete" with the Übermensch.

but alas the russians came to learn the ways of owning multiple battlekeeps and phantom sieges to maintanin the power, and people cried nerf battlekeep buffs they farm us qq, there is no skill my pvp gear is not imba anymore.
and the great warriors joined great guild alliances wich owned battlekeeps so they could be mighty against the ones still using epic keshatta gear and didnt have battlekeeps.

so they cried i cannot do minigames the premades, the premades, the premades they broke my face and my momma dont care im gonna go back to wow.

so battlekeeps were nerfed and many left game because they werent imba anymore, and people werent allowed to play with their friends anymore because people were to afraid to pvp.

and then came allmighty bori and all said its is good let us farm those nodes hard to get our Übermensch gear so we can go around and be Übermensch against people using t1-t2 pve gear.
so people stoped to pvp to get pvp gear and people flocked to biggest guilds to have a chance to farm those nodes like pro pvp'ers.

then as t3 crafted wepons started to become available like the good lambs they are they went to most sucessfull pve guild to get the weapons and go back to being the awesome pvp'ers they were in shinny bori armor and t3 crafted wepons.

and thus came to be the great reign of the immortal soldiers wich held the mightiest of armors wich granted them immortality vs all the heretic mages wich had no proper armor apart from pve gear to be able to scratch their mighty armors.

and all the soldiers rejoiced in their supremacy and farmed and farmed the pug minigames like pro pvp'ers fighting unorganized rable, given the game masters decided that playing with friends in minigames was to hard for pvp'ers to handle.

and one day they finished t4 and people started to gear up and pve'rs started to show their face in minigames and pvp'ers were envious.
that armor is so shiny and mighty you must be nerfed, you kill me because your armor is shinier and that cannot be!
mine must be the shinniest armor because i farmed those nodes so hard and was forced to migrate to pve server to farm faster and was forced to join t3 raids for months so i could get my Übermensch t3 crafted weapon and now here you are with shinnier armor doing better then me who pvpd so hard in hator ka and bori.

you must be nerfed!
it cannot be that your armor is better then mine!

[Dodgeball]

once upon a time.

people played virtual characters in low fantasy world of hyboria based on old myths and legends of old pre-christian europe.

they rediscovered the power of better armor and weapons and cried rivers about it.

right from start they discovered that stacking magic gems would enable them to kill so fast that some people developed a god complex.

then the mighty programer gods hidden in R'lyeh said no! enough. and these might gems were nerfed into stinking feces.

later they discovered epic kesh bosses droped shiny blue armors and people farmed pve for pvp advantage.

and for a long time people just cried nerf this and that and delete tos storm crown and grip of death on necros else my imba pve gear dont work in pvp!

but alas skill prevailed and the mighty warriors were presented with pvp gear wich made them Übermensch against the epic keshatta geared players, and pve'rs cried oh noes this pvp gear is too strong i will not pay a cent more to this game im going to go back to wow cause doing combos is to hard and its too many spells and buffs and debuffs im confused.

so for some time galadh and his scum friends reigned supreme with only the mighty empire who were professionals at doing naked rp in battlekeeps to gain faster pvp xp to be able to "compete" with the Übermensch.

but alas the russians came to learn the ways of owning multiple battlekeeps and phantom sieges to maintanin the power, and people cried nerf battlekeep buffs they farm us qq, there is no skill my pvp gear is not imba anymore.
and the great warriors joined great guild alliances wich owned battlekeeps so they could be mighty against the ones still using epic keshatta gear and didnt have battlekeeps.

so they cried i cannot do minigames the premades, the premades, the premades they broke my face and my momma dont care im gonna go back to wow.

so battlekeeps were nerfed and many left game because they werent imba anymore, and people werent allowed to play with their friends anymore because people were to afraid to pvp.

and then came allmighty bori and all said its is good let us farm those nodes hard to get our Übermensch gear so we can go around and be Übermensch against people using t1-t2 pve gear.
so people stoped to pvp to get pvp gear and people flocked to biggest guilds to have a chance to farm those nodes like pro pvp'ers.

then as t3 crafted wepons started to become available like the good lambs they are they went to most sucessfull pve guild to get the weapons and go back to being the awesome pvp'ers they were in shinny bori armor and t3 crafted wepons.

and thus came to be the great reign of the immortal soldiers wich held the mightiest of armors wich granted them immortality vs all the heretic mages wich had no proper armor apart from pve gear to be able to scratch their mighty armors.

and all the soldiers rejoiced in their supremacy and farmed and farmed the pug minigames like pro pvp'ers fighting unorganized rable, given the game masters decided that playing with friends in minigames was to hard for pvp'ers to handle.

and one day they finished t4 and people started to gear up and pve'rs started to show their face in minigames and pvp'ers were envious.
that armor is so shiny and mighty you must be nerfed, you kill me because your armor is shinier and that cannot be!
mine must be the shinniest armor because i farmed those nodes so hard and was forced to migrate to pve server to farm faster and was forced to join t3 raids for months so i could get my Übermensch t3 crafted weapon and now here you are with shinnier armor doing better then me who pvpd so hard in hator ka and bori.

you must be nerfed!
it cannot be that your armor is better then mine!

Nice history lesson bro!