LoL PvP?

[Rathothis]

I don't know, I have a pvp 2 ranger and a pvp 3 tos that tops kills in minis when there are pvp 10 melee on the other teams. I hate saying it, but there is a l2p aspect that is missing. it almost sounds like we want to dumb the game down so that we catch a passer by who tries it. But I think they will lose interest quickly when they see there is no goal. other than vanity gear?

If you take pvp gear out of the equation, I am wondering if it will hurt pvp more. All too often I hear people are signing up to get their badges, and I welcome even the casual gamer to this. Taking this away will only hurt pvp IMO.

Well, let's just assume that you're as good as you say you are, burning down pvp 10 melees on your lowbie ToS.

Fact is, most people aren't. I would think that, after some years in this game, I'm a decent but by no means great player. In the setting you describe, my chances on ToS are zilch unless the pvp 10 melee is positively awful (of course there are a few of those...), or he's a HoX.

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who may have better reactions than I do, but just reached level 80 on his new toon. He doesn't have gear, doesn't have AAs, and still has a lot to learn about the game (e.g. identifying the most important CCs, when to use bubbles, etc).

You say that the changes to earn badges which he may use, in some distant future, to earn pvp gear, will keep this guy in the game.

I say that he will quit, as (i) he will die a lot while not being able to hurt most other players in the game, which can be frustrating, and (ii) what's even worse, he will actually be a liability to his team everywhere but in world zergs (which hardly happen anymore anyway).

And btw, this is not just based on some a priori reasoning, but on actual experience. I don't have that much contact with new players on Crom, but rolled a toon on Rage a few months ago. We did see quite some new players on Rage when AoC went live on Steam. Since player numbers at level 80 are very limited, many guilds on Rage actually go out of their way to help newbies, in order to keep them in the game. Nevertheless, many people quit when they reach level 80, because they feel like they're just farming material.

But in any case, FC will hopefully be addressing this soon by means of Unchained minigames. Open world pvp will need more than just balancing issues to become attractive again anyway, noite and Vehl have made some very interesting suggestions in this regard.

[bruceleroy]

Well, let's just assume that you're as good as you say you are, burning down pvp 10 melees on your lowbie ToS.

Fact is, most people aren't. I would think that, after some years in this game, I'm a decent but by no means great player. In the setting you describe, my chances on ToS are zilch unless the pvp 10 melee is positively awful (of course there are a few of those...), or he's a HoX.

Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who may have better reactions than I do, but just reached level 80 on his new toon. He doesn't have gear, doesn't have AAs, and still has a lot to learn about the game (e.g. identifying the most important CCs, when to use bubbles, etc).

You say that the changes to earn badges which he may use, in some distant future, to earn pvp gear, will keep this guy in the game.

I say that he will quit, as (i) he will die a lot while not being able to hurt most other players in the game, which can be frustrating, and (ii) what's even worse, he will actually be a liability to his team everywhere but in world zergs (which hardly happen anymore anyway).

And btw, this is not just based on some a priori reasoning, but on actual experience. I don't have that much contact with new players on Crom, but rolled a toon on Rage a few months ago. We did see quite some new players on Rage when AoC went live on Steam. Since player numbers at level 80 are very limited, many guilds on Rage actually go out of their way to help newbies, in order to keep them in the game. Nevertheless, many people quit when they reach level 80, because they feel like they're just farming material.

But in any case, FC will hopefully be addressing this soon by means of Unchained minigames. Open world pvp will need more than just balancing issues to become attractive again anyway, noite and Vehl have made some very interesting suggestions in this regard.

Its not a question of being good. Its a question of knowing how to play. As a pvp 2 ranger, you don't see me focusing tanks. As a tos, you don't see me chasing baddies healing them because they are foolish, like pom said (I quoted him below because its key to understanding how healers should play), its knowing who to heal and how to help. Then your team wins, less focus on you, and more help fo you to succeed.

I never played wow, nor do I want to. I like conan because of its content and pvp. Its fun to play mortal combat real time with such great animations. And its not goblins and other creatures, but humans.

I think in the end, we just agree to disagree. I think progression is a good thing. I think levels are a good thing. I think having different types of armor and variety are a good thing. But I can see your point, and I think you do represent a player base out there where everyone wants a level playing field (I see this like D&D online-which I found boring after learning the mechanics). The question is, which player base has more players? I don't know and I am not sure how to ever know this. Perhaps another survey, but everyone knows those haven't helped in the past.

stop exaggeration. I said "not worth healing" when that pvp 0 sin went to 0-5 and raged about my heal but the rest of group went very positive. What I said make sense since my bear only was pvp 1 and had to make sure important players got heal 1st before my bear went down. No matter what heal on that sin, he died anyway. That is healer 101 for you, heal your most important players 1st and make sure they survive. See, you need to L2P. I never said "GTFO' and I don't spam my heal. I still don't understand why I can't cast blue heals on other healers. You know the blue heal from other healers heal more than your own blue heal on your self, right (unless you have AA or feated or worry about heal overwrites some procs)? You don't realize this? L2P? All I saw you in that mini was chasing some tanks and got killed. For the same pvp level of BS, Vidool probably 5x better than you. Learn from him and complain less, please. He also complained a lot about me. But I took advise from him.

[Eldaen]

...

I never played wow, nor do I want to. I like conan because of its content and pvp. Its fun to play mortal combat real time with such great animations. And its not goblins and other creatures, but humans.

I think in the end, we just agree to disagree. I think progression is a good thing. I think levels are a good thing. I think having different types of armor and variety are a good thing. But I can see your point, and I think you do represent a player base out there where everyone wants a level playing field (I see this like D&D online-which I found boring after learning the mechanics). The question is, which player base has more players? I don't know and I am not sure how to ever know this. Perhaps another survey, but everyone knows those haven't helped in the past.

Now that you mentioned Mortal Kombat, 3 things:

1)Aoc isnt exactly real time combat, ranger can shoot arrows from their back as their abilities are locked to their targets so long as the finisher has been triggered, combos finishers are hitting the wind for full damage no matter if the targets is 50m away after 3 sec of animation, you can miss direct white hits on a moving character if you dont tab target it etc... it's a hybrid combat system without auto-attack.

2)There is no pvp level, magic pyjama or any gear grind in Mortal Kombat, only skill prevail. (oh and no capture the flag...)

3)There is a 8 years old f2p online game called guild wars 1 with more people playing pvp and even pve without gear scaling than there are players in aoc, but it's an old game, the sequel however ressemble more a pve fairytale WoW hybrid in gameplay with only a single conquest mode and a level/stuff based zerg v zerg.

I admit easily it's not the same kind of fun to play pvp to truely oppose your skills against other players and be rewarded with the thrill of battle, ranking, title, vanity, fame, bragging rights and even gold or to play pvp to farm your opponent with overwhelming power advantage and be rewarded with more power if you dedicate more time to grinding generic pve.

however a mortal kombat mod for AoC focusing only on combat with balanced characters, abilities fix here and there, no hack and no 1g potions would be truely awesome, funcom please share the source code and i make this

this game simply doesnt cater to me anymore as i have done everything and i am over with power farming and generic grinding. you are from the US so i cant tell with player issues in ... minigames......

[bruceleroy]

Now that you mentioned Mortal Kombat, 3 things:

1)Aoc isnt exactly real time combat, ranger can shoot arrows from their back as their abilities are locked to their targets so long as the finisher has been triggered, combos finishers are hitting the wind for full damage no matter if the targets is 50m away after 3 sec of animation, you can miss direct white hits on a moving character if you dont tab target it etc... it's a hybrid combat system without auto-attack.

2)There is no pvp level, magic pyjama or any gear grind in Mortal Kombat, only skill prevail. (oh and no capture the flag...)

3)There is a 8 years old f2p online game called guild wars 1 with more people playing pvp and even pve without gear scaling than there are players in aoc, but it's an old game, the sequel however ressemble more a pve fairytale WoW hybrid in gameplay with only a single conquest mode and a level/stuff based zerg v zerg.

I admit easily it's not the same kind of fun to play pvp to truely oppose your skills against other players and be rewarded with the thrill of battle, ranking, title, vanity, fame, bragging rights and even gold or to play pvp to farm your opponent with overwhelming power advantage and be rewarded with more power if you dedicate more time to grinding generic pve.

however a mortal kombat mod for AoC focusing only on combat with balanced characters, abilities fix here and there, no hack and no 1g potions would be truely awesome, funcom please share the source code and i make this

this game simply doesnt cater to me anymore as i have done everything and i am over with power farming and generic grinding. you are from the US so i cant tell with player issues in ... minigames......

Out of my entire post, the only thing you got was mortal kombat? That's kind of sad you missed the point, please take a moment and read it, there was content in there. I did not list comparisons, only a reference.

[-Nightshadow-]

I agree there are pros and cons to be weighed on both sides of the armor debate.

You can either have a gear based game that gives players something to work towards and therefore a stronger incentive to play but simultaneously screwing the newer players (Aion) or have gear not matter as much and risk losing players because there's no progression (GW2).

I'll tell you right now that I wouldn't want to be the one in charge of making this decision. Either decision is going to make a large portion of people unhappy. Frankly, with the Unchained minis projected, I find myself doing minis less because campaign badges are no longer useful. PvP gear will become completely irrelevant unless you plan on running around open world in PvP gear which I predict very few will and only the ones that already have the gear. Not to mention the veterans who've worked for their full PvP 10 gear are much more likely to quit soon after unchained goes into effect.

I need something to work for, and vanity isn't going to cut it. I want to feel like it's worth my while to play, and progression is a huge part of that.