Agro

[Aylis]

And to be completely honest, I can't believe we are still debating this after the game has been out for 5 years. I understand class changes, but seriously! Tanks shouldn't have any issues keeping it off of dps.

5 years and still full of bad tanks.

[rowdy88]

i use to raid with guards that used goad as a taunt all it did was kill the DTs or DPS to pull. goad should only be used in emergency

[aegeas]

All my builds have goad and goad mob in them, am I doing something wrong?

[Mellaus]

You only want goad as an emergency tool.
Forget about goad mob, mostly since bosses have been immune to it for a very long time, and you don't need to goad anything that is not a a boss.

[Erock25]

All my builds have goad and goad mob in them, am I doing something wrong?

I can see you've learned from the best... samaellz the great.

[joe-da-cro]

try this build.

http://goo.gl/fi1ucx

use this rotation/abilities

shield slam starter
coh
finish shield slam
guard destroyer starter
call to arms
battle cry
powerhouse
finish combo
countereright combo
reckoning
titanic smash combo

cycle below until guard destroyer buff is gone
overreach 5 combo
counterweight combo

use below combos until guard destroyer is back up
shield slam with coh (if off cool down)
counterweight with reckoning (if off cool down)
overreach 5

when guard destroyer back up
guard destroyer starter
call to arms
battle cry
volcanic rage

go up and read guard destroyer buff combos to use

rinse and repeat.

this rotation has decent burst aggro (not the best) but sustained threat throughout the rotation. timing of damage dealing abilites need to be almost instant by that they should be hotkeyed so you can bash them almost at the same time as the guard destroyer combo starter. high dps ~ 900 dps (with t3 guard) is achieved with the guard destroyer rotation while the buff is running. dps drops sharply with shield slam and over reach portion. using a parser when i was working on a sustained dps/threat ammount on the guard the best dps i pulled was about ~635 dps on strawman. while raiding i was never able to test full out dps as generally i had to slow the rotation down as i found DTS have a longer wind up time before their agro kicks off.

in regards to maneuvers use provoke when you dont have aggro. switch to the +15% damage one when you have aggro and enduring defense when your hp pool is at about 60 - 70% keep in mind maneuvers can be cast mid combo so use the combo time as down time to check maneuvers.

the build posted is there to squeeze every bit of dps from the class without wasting points in survivability (as a tank you should be able to survive 4 hits then aggro will switch out naturally. also when i siwtch to enduring defence and feel i wont drop aggro naturally i switch to pole arm and do the guard combo switching back to s/b at 95% of the combo bar. if timed right you keep the 10% armour from the combo and can have that little bit more survivability and doing that combo will drop the amount of dps and threat that you are generating without you having to completely stop.

lastly from my understanding 1% hate = 5.2 dpa (forget the ratio as it has been some time since i played and calculated the figure) meaning if you can replace 1% hate stats with an extra 5.2 dps then you are even. but better off taking the damage.

from what i have understood from the game is that threat is the dps + an innate hate attached which is 100% plus any +hate stats. so assuming i have +30% hate mods
threat = 625*2 + 5.2 * 30
threat = 1406

mpw what that means without any extra hate mods like coh and shield slam hate the dps alone that 625 dps can hold back is over 1400. add in the tools and you can see that the guard is not that far off. keep in mind the 100% threat modifier on damage only seems logical as guards to so much less damage than dt yet can keep up

the only reason why i believe the dt has an edge is because it is pure dps and not relying a mechanic which can potenitally degrade during battles.

in regards to goad i hate that most tanks have in their mind that goad is only used to save people. tanks should be trading agro all the time naturally. if a dt is running curse of gwalhur they shouldnt.. same reason why guards dont use stall the advance. basically the guardian should be the controller of the fight by that is setting the tone for all dps including dts. i think in the first 2 mins of a fight 2 dts should pop off a goad to boost their aggro up to where the guardians are at. then as the fight draws out it will be guardians who use goad to catch up with the DTs. (this is why any retributive damage ability for a tank is extremely counter productive for tanking.)

i know most guards will prob shrug this post off or think im insane or stupid etc. doesnt matter im sharing my 2 cents worth on how it worked for me. hopefully people can get some use from this.

[kennyfisterbotm]

How on earth do you actually say that a % is a static number?

1% hate mod = 5.25 dps or what ever the number is.

1% of 100 is 1
1% of 200 is 2
1% of 1000 is 10

In short, your supposed "threat tool calculator" although impressive to the noob, is just wrong.

And then you say that "goad" is completely cool to use for no reason other than to "boost a DT' aggro". Dude seriously speaking, I hope not one new player listens to this stuff. It's just dumb play!

Let me guess, "Forced engage" should be used as often as possible too rite?

[Caudilloo]

Just to be clear; I have never tried tanking a boss like this and I think any tank can switch with any of the other tank if they have more or less the same skill/gear/xp/aa. If goad or FE is needed it means a mistake was made somewhere.

I can however think of several ways to use goad as a valid aggrotool.

Imagine Louhi fullburn (yes, this is still possible after the 'fix' even tho it takes longer now)

- 1. Guard1 takes aggro -> Blows all aggrotools (preferably with a welltimed CoD) -> Stall the Advance -> Cunning -> Bubble : Bursting the aggro as high as he can.

- 2. Guard2 goads himself to the same level as guard 1 -> Blows all aggrotools (combined with CoD) -> Stall the Advance -> Cunning -> Bubble : Bursting the aggro higher than ever.

- 3. When guard 2 gets low on health the 3th tank that is not in dpsspecc (Conq might be best with higher aggrobursts then DT) takes aggro with goad -> raises the aggro as high as he can in 30 seconds blowing all his long CD's etc.

- 4. After tank3 has tanked for 30 seconds Stall the Advance from guard1 is from cooldown so he goads the aggro off the 3th tank and the whole thing starts again.

No crazy spellweaving necro, Pyama wisdom DT, crazy sin or dualwielding conq will ever be close to pulling aggro this way.
Of course this is not possible on many bosses but I'm sure there are more situations where goad can be used in a smart way if you stop being so so conservative about it and just think out of the box.

[joe-da-cro]

How on earth do you actually say that a % is a static number?

1% hate mod = 5.25 dps or what ever the number is.

1% of 100 is 1
1% of 200 is 2
1% of 1000 is 10

In short, your supposed "threat tool calculator" although impressive to the noob, is just wrong.

And then you say that "goad" is completely cool to use for no reason other than to "boost a DT' aggro". Dude seriously speaking, I hope not one new player listens to this stuff. It's just dumb play!

Let me guess, "Forced engage" should be used as often as possible too rite?

dude its been ages since i played the game. i ran stats and numbers for every aspect of the game. so i can min max everything i did. lets now how work back on how to formulate a ratio. play with provoke and pull a consistent dps with a rotation. then play with the +15% damage one. now obviously you will need to have a look at your dps stat on your char. then use a real time parser to see what the difference is in dps and when the dps pulled. once you have that you will need to work out the difference of dps to the difference in stats till you work out the ratio. i did this ages ago and dont have my work but it was in the low 5 dps mark on your char stats. but then again most people have some idea how that number would have been derived. only an idiot would comment on how that.

in regards to goad i was establishing an opinion i thought that was obvious when i said i hate how tanks.... the idea there is to help min maxers with advanced tanking.

see you schou are what i always thought of a lowest common denominator tanks. by that you arent completely stupid you can do simple things like hit a button when someones health is low. you can spam shield slam. hit irritate and your coh at the end of shield slam so you can have the boss target you for a fraction of a second because your epeen is not satiated unless your name is on the bosses target. Pathetic. no wonder guardians have so much trouble these days when you are at the helm giving mediocre advice on how to play a class.

lastly ill make sure ill point out what is what so you can comprehend posts because you seem to have problems reading.

[longtail]

Just to be clear; I have never tried tanking a boss like this and I think any tank can switch with any of the other tank if they have more or less the same skill/gear/xp/aa. If goad or FE is needed it means a mistake was made somewhere.

I can however think of several ways to use goad as a valid aggrotool.

Imagine Louhi fullburn (yes, this is still possible after the 'fix' even tho it takes longer now)

- 1. Guard1 takes aggro -> Blows all aggrotools (preferably with a welltimed CoD) -> Stall the Advance -> Cunning -> Bubble : Bursting the aggro as high as he can.

- 2. Guard2 goads himself to the same level as guard 1 -> Blows all aggrotools (combined with CoD) -> Stall the Advance -> Cunning -> Bubble : Bursting the aggro higher than ever.

- 3. When guard 2 gets low on health the 3th tank that is not in dpsspecc (Conq might be best with higher aggrobursts then DT) takes aggro with goad -> raises the aggro as high as he can in 30 seconds blowing all his long CD's etc.

- 4. After tank3 has tanked for 30 seconds Stall the Advance from guard1 is from cooldown so he goads the aggro off the 3th tank and the whole thing starts again.

No crazy spellweaving necro, Pyama wisdom DT, crazy sin or dualwielding conq will ever be close to pulling aggro this way.
Of course this is not possible on many bosses but I'm sure there are more situations where goad can be used in a smart way if you stop being so so conservative about it and just think out of the box.

Aggro leap frogging with goad is a great idea even if it'll only work for certain fights. I suspect it can work well for Zodiac bosses as well even though they could be solo tanked, but having a second/third tank to deliberately boost the tank aggro bar via goad is possibly the only way for other fully geared DPS T4 toons to truly flex their DPS.