Agro

[KullOfValusia]

Give me your full T4 Guard and DT before you go please

Probably going to give my toons to a guild mate. Its still a strong game for new players but im tired of believing month after month and just receiving frustrating amounts of silence and inaction. Maybe I'll check back when the movie comes out but holy crap if eqnext even lives up to 50% of what they are offering..its gonna be hard. Enjoy AoC though its still the only game where you can chop heads off with a great combat system. Cya on the other side.

[kennyfisterbotm]

Wow, I missed a lot while I was gone.

Tmanku made Sets top 5 guards. "How on earth did he manage that?" Sorry man, but he honestly is one of the worst players I have ever seen. Doesn't help that his personality is bad too."

A post pertaining to tanks should be just shy of rogue dps. Umm, no! That would really break the game. Do you even know how high rogue dps is?

EU vs US conversation starters, I'm glad this hasn't picked up more steam.

And some over all flaming on the forums while they should be hosting or playing the game.

It's a sad day when you get more forum posts and pvp action on a forum thread than you do in game. "Just sayin!"

[Aylis]

I think technically we're a clade, not a race.

Also, legitimate question from a guard nub: I see s+b guards, and I see poleguards, but I never see s+b guards wepswap to the pole for a little more dps while their hate gen combos are on cd. Are the pole combos really that worthless?

People used to do this back before the agro fix. Back then some ppl had to get every ounce of threat they could. They would do a pole arm combo for a bit of dps/threat on an unshielded side.

Nowadays im not sure if anyone does it anymore. It wont help against bad dts going crazy and actually threat generation is good.

On a different topic

I just think we need a tad more dps from s/b spec.

The guard class is broke. When someone asked where was the guard useful ppl in this thread pick out 4 or 5 fights that some ppl/guilds cant even do anymore.
Guards are useful in 5 outta how many dozen raid bosses and its not a gimped class?

I say guards are gimped/not useful becuase dts/conq can do 90 percent of the content better than a guard now.
Guards are gimped/not useful becuase our spot in raids no longer exists.

Dts dont need.
Conqs are just about perfect/working as intended.
Guards need a buff.
Why ? To make them more useful.
Swapping in a guard for a couple bosses here or there is just dumb.

[KullOfValusia]

Don't even bother with these people. They can't understand simple non-numerical terms. Theres not a SINGLE raid boss in the game thats not tankable by a desc-spec DT rocking a tali (aka the All-in-one-wonder 2200 DPS + Tank super class) and yet they REFUSE to admit a guardian who does the same tanking but only yielding 450 DPS is inferior... 450 vs. 2200 DPS.. which number is bigger? Not ..that...difficult.

And in terms of aggro switching, yeah, it's simple...if you're a guard leave the raid and fill with another 2200 DPS DT. There. Now whenever you want aggro, just pop a irritate and it's yours...don't have to worry about those pesky guards that can't keep up with your 2200 DPS GLORIOUS SUPER AGGRO.

[Bvis]

Don't even bother with these people. They can't understand simple non-numerical terms. Theres not a SINGLE raid boss in the game thats not tankable by a desc-spec DT rocking a tali (aka the All-in-one-wonder 2200 DPS + Tank super class) and yet they REFUSE to admit a guardian who does the same tanking but only yielding 450 DPS is inferior... 450 vs. 2200 DPS.. which number is bigger? Not ..that...difficult.

Who cant be reasoned with here? You're the one spewing the same BS over and over. Try tanking louhi once his shield goes up with a desecration DT using a tali wearing priest gear (wait you already told us your guild uses the noob strat of 4 dread shadows). Try to tank the emperor that way - especially the reflections where you do nearly zero damage and tap - wait for it - nearly zero health. I can't even imagine trying imp, Thoth Amon, archfiend, zaal, or any other hard hitting boss that way where you can get 2 shotted before you get any taps.

Desecration DTs don't do 2200 DPS on any protection fights or fights where you ever have to move and they lose the VOM stacks. You latch onto ONE parse on ONE boss (which is static and doesnt hit that hard and conveniently has symbols with low mitigation to tap extra health from and help proc VoM) from ONE dt probably in maxed out gear with a very specific setup and claim that's what all DTs do on every fight. You are just completely full of it. No sane person denies that DTs are OP but there are plenty of situations where a guard is better. What nobody agrees with you on is your claim that guards are useless just because you suck at playing one.

And contrary to what you seem to think, even a DT who does 2000+ DPS doesn't have nearly the burst aggro of a guard. If you actually knew anything about the dt you sold know it takes 15 to 20 seconds to get up to full DPS while you wait for VOM procs during which that lack of seal of chaos really hurts until the damage starts flowing.

[KullOfValusia]

Who cant be reasoned with here? You're the one spewing the same BS over and over. Try tanking louhi once his shield goes up with a desecration DT using a tali wearing priest gear (wait you already told us your guild uses the noob strat of 4 dread shadows). Try to tank the emperor that way - especially the reflections where you do nearly zero damage and tap - wait for it - nearly zero health. I can't even imagine trying imp, Thoth Amon, archfiend, zaal, or any other hard hitting boss that way where you can get 2 shotted before you get any taps.

Desecration DTs don't do 2200 DPS on any protection fights or fights where you ever have to move and they lose the VOM stacks. You latch onto ONE parse on ONE boss (which is static and doesnt hit that hard and conveniently has symbols with low mitigation to tap extra health from and help proc VoM) from ONE dt probably in maxed out gear with a very specific setup and claim that's what all DTs do on every fight. You are just completely full of it. No sane person denies that DTs are OP but there are plenty of situations where a guard is better. What nobody agrees with you on is your claim that guards are useless just because you suck at playing one.

And contrary to what you seem to think, even a DT who does 2000+ DPS doesn't have nearly the burst aggro of a guard. If you actually knew anything about the dt you sold know it takes 15 to 20 seconds to get up to full DPS while you wait for VOM procs during which that lack of seal of chaos really hurts until the damage starts flowing.

On the contrary, almost all the top guards on Set agree with me that Guards need a leg up on aggro which is the topic of this thread. You're not understanding the main point, my full T3 Sin does what 1500~1700 DPS? Some magical way with pixie dust a DT (a class in FULL PLATE with 15K+ HP) is doing 2k+ regularly and they really don't need THAT much time to get going with VoM..like you said 15 to 20 secs...What fights in the game have bosses aggro dumping before 20 secs are up... thats right. NONE.

Bottom line, the MAX DPS in this game is a DT in tali crazy mode spec... (plus he can tank in this spec somehow). A guard's ONLY job (no DPS can't heal) is to get aggro... it's not possible to do this anymore because a DT (most likely unintentionally and lack of foresight of crit scaling with crazy gear) has exceeded the DPS to which a tank can reasonably maintain aggro from. It's a problem. Perhaps not much on the guard side, but definetly from the DT side.

[Lordvenom2]

On the contrary, almost all the top guards on Set agree with me that Guards need a leg up on aggro which is the topic of this thread. You're not understanding the main point, my full T3 Sin does what 1500~1700 DPS? Some magical way with pixie dust a DT (a class in FULL PLATE with 15K+ HP) is doing 2k+ regularly and they really don't need THAT much time to get going with VoM..like you said 15 to 20 secs...What fights in the game have bosses aggro dumping before 20 secs are up... thats right. NONE.

Bottom line, the MAX DPS in this game is a DT in tali crazy mode spec... (plus he can tank in this spec somehow). A guard's ONLY job (no DPS can't heal) is to get aggro... it's not possible to do this anymore because a DT (most likely unintentionally and lack of foresight of crit scaling with crazy gear) has exceeded the DPS to which a tank can reasonably maintain aggro from. It's a problem. Perhaps not much on the guard side, but definetly from the DT side.

You listed me as one of those top guards, which I don't see myself as, and I never said guards need an agro boost, just because dts are OP in terms of dps doesn't mean guards are broken or need a buff, guards are fine just how they are now.

Your main point seems to be dts can do a lot of dps while tanking, as earth shattering as this news is it doesn't change or debunk the points others have made in this thread.Dts can build the highest agro over time, but Bvis is right in some fights guards are better suited such as emp/louhi and other magic fights because what they give up for more protection is much less then even a desecration speced dt needs to give up in order to both build hate and survive once they have it.


This whole thread has gotten pretty idiotic imo, guard agro is fine, dts do a lot of dps /endthread.

[Erock25]

On the contrary, almost all the top guards on Set agree with me

You have no clue who the top guards on set are.

[KullOfValusia]

You have no clue who the top guards on set are.

My list is pretty accurate. My aggro is pretty decent also...wait scratch that it's good. And quite frankly I don't think you have any idea what a guard even is, so enough said on that.

[cins]

still going on about guards

Weren't you quitting?
...
Shield guards have more than enough buttons to press so no keys left for polearm, while polearm works well enough with like 3 buttons so there's no compelling reason to add more buttons. Or so I've always assumed.