Conqs

[Kalgon]

You have taken my comment out of context. I never said NOT to focus them, every class needs to be put in check. I said not to 1 vs 1 them with a clothie. If you stay with your team & they over extend 4-6 people focus one person (ANY CLASS) will start getting burned fast. (My main was and has been BARB for the longest. They broke the barb when combo canceling was removed. Barb is most over looked class in the game right now.)
Back on subject, If you play smart, stay with you team and focus together as a cohesive unit your team will be successful. Every character has a role and a tanks role is to be Tanky(imagine that) and fight clothies. After all, would you want a tank on your team that could NOT push and could not keep the agro of the hardest hitting classes? or would YOU rather be the one being focused while the Tank runs off and hides....(oh that's right you would call them BAD if they did that right?) Nuff said. This is pretty much a case closed.
#Iwin

This is not about winning a mini game. Nobody here said that you can't win a mini game because of soldiers.

Yes soldiers are supposed to be the tanks to run in and take damage. That does not give them the right to dish out almost as much or more dps than a rogue.

This is also not about playing smart with your team. Its about the amount of damage, utility and mitigation soldiers have.
I'll repeat it again. How can you justify soldiers having some of the highest damage, most mitigation and highest health of any class?
You mean to tell me thats not unbalanced?

My main is DT and I'm not affraid to admit that soldiers are retarded right now.

[Yewcantcme]

You have taken my comment out of context. I never said NOT to focus them, every class needs to be put in check. I said not to 1 vs 1 them with a clothie. If you stay with your team & they over extend 4-6 people focus one person (ANY CLASS) will start getting burned fast. (My main was and has been BARB for the longest. They broke the barb when combo canceling was removed. Barb is most over looked class in the game right now.)
Back on subject, If you play smart, stay with you team and focus together as a cohesive unit your team will be successful. Every character has a role and a tanks role is to be Tanky(imagine that) and fight clothies. After all, would you want a tank on your team that could NOT push and could not keep the agro of the hardest hitting classes? or would YOU rather be the one being focused while the Tank runs off and hides....(oh that's right you would call them BAD if they did that right?) Nuff said. This is pretty much a case closed.
#Iwin

Ok so this is a little confusing - The simple answer to Conqs/soldiers being overpowered = don't duel them with a clothie... or get 4 - 6 people to kill one? How can you say that with a straight face? You're basically saying "Well Conqs/soldiers aren't overpowered... as long as you don't duel them with HALF OF THE CHARACTER CLASSES... or have 4 - 6 people"... I mean honestly? They have more dps than a sin, oftentimes competitive heals of a dedicated-healer (Conqs), the most damage absorption of any class in the game, and to top it all off (in the case of Conq and Guard at least)they've been dumbed down ridiculously. And I have no idea where all of this talk of team-play came into the conversation considering it's a discussion of the current state of Conqs (which has turned into soldiers in general).

As it stands now, tanks are the most noob-friendly classes in the game. They took classes that had great ideas/premise behind their design, and made them completely faceroll to play.

- Guardians have ridiculously long, HARD hitting combos, not to mention Stall the Advance that does insane retributive damage, added onto all of the cc's, mitigation, and a bubble.

- DT has Soul Barrier (which at this point is a justifiable ability as it drains their mana when they're hit at least), crazy damage (which once again, at least they have to fight in order to achieve said damage), crazy mitigation, and a decent amount of cc when the factor of short resistances is brought into the equation.

- Conqs, by far the most op at the moment, have the highest dps of the soldiers, by far the highest survivability due to crazy heals/bubbles, ridiculous cc abilities, and crazy AA abilities like OLP that I have seen hit well over 8k before. Top all of that off with combos that a 2-year-old could land because they're pretty much ALL AOE/2HE range, and that ='s one overpowered class that can't be defended.

And before anybody chimes in with "You gotta play a Conq before you can post!"... Well I have a Conq. I stopped playing him because the revamp made the class legitimately retarded. It is so freakin' overpowered and forgiving that I lost all interest in the class I used to have so much fun on. I mean, after the revamp I was downing pvp 10's with EASE on my pvp 3 Conq... that's sad.

[Mathieulombardi]

Well, Carnie Conqs and DTs can both be shut down more easily than Guards or Brute Conqs for sure. But in the end, all soldiers are hard to shut down, while keeping really good damage output and CCs. Btw Conqs...rs are OP as hell even with the crappy pvp weapons, true story)

Yeah that's my opinion too for the most part. However one big part of pvp is counters and anti counters. That comes in the form of cc usage, resist, and immunities. Guards resist more cc's than the other two soldiers. When considered as a whole package (including their aoe ccs) imo guards are still the strongest.

Well to be fair have the same defensive tools, thus i find them much easier to deal with.

Unless we have pros of the same level and gear playing on balanced maps for both melee and range you won't ever see verification of balance on the battlefield when you base balance on player skill.

Of course player skill should be considered like I said originally, just not as much as we have been talking about. Or we might as well just drop issues of imbalance completely, and roll flavours of the months - as many did when age of casters, age of soldiers rolled along. Comments like the following really adds nothing to the discussion:

Every class has enjoyed the sunshine on its arse for a certain amount of time in this game. There are qq threads about every class.

No doubt, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it, or point of fc's balance flaws, and push for better balance.

[barbaricwildcat2]

They have more dps than a sin

must admit :/

frenzy conq always out-dpses me :S

[Thutkemi]

I'll preface by saying that you're not wrong that soldiers are OP, but you fall into the trap of putting all their abilities together, which isn't possible.

- Guardians have ridiculously long, HARD hitting combos, not to mention Stall the Advance that does insane retributive damage, added onto all of the cc's, mitigation, and a bubble.

The long, hard-hitting combo that causes the most QQ is Counterweight, which can't be used with STA. The mitigation and ccs and bubble are there (though at least the CD on the bubble is long).

- DT has Soul Barrier (which at this point is a justifiable ability as it drains their mana when they're hit at least), crazy damage (which once again, at least they have to fight in order to achieve said damage), crazy mitigation, and a decent amount of cc when the factor of short resistances is brought into the equation.

DTs are tough and, in the right hands, devastating, but the 1HE range makes them more easy to handle.

- Conqs, by far the most op at the moment, have the highest dps of the soldiers, by far the highest survivability due to crazy heals/bubbles, ridiculous cc abilities, and crazy AA abilities like OLP that I have seen hit well over 8k before. Top all of that off with combos that a 2-year-old could land because they're pretty much ALL AOE/2HE range, and that ='s one overpowered class that can't be defended.

The revamp made Brute heals very strong, no question, with a certain AA. But you can't combine OLP with the heals because you need Battlefield Commander to get those. And hitting well over 8k is the very rare exception, not the rule. The AOE/2HE range combo on the conq is HOFS. It's not used all that much more than as a filler combo. There are two AOE combos with Carnage that do a lot of damage, but they are 1HE. And a carnage conq has a relatively crappy evade bubble that just requires you to hit him in the back. Don't get me wrong, conqs were already strong before the revamp and it pushed them over the top, but let's talk in terms of what is possible, not use everything in all feat trees to describe the abilities. I was happy with my Brute conq before the revamp and I will continue to play it even after it gets balanced or other classes get stronger because, frankly, it's my favourite class and has been for a long time (longest time played of any of my toons), but I don't see how lumping all of the abilities together makes any sense if we are trying to have a rational discussion about these classes, or this one in particular. The damage that a well-geared carnage conq can put out is ridiculously high, but they do make some compromises to get there (not many, but a couple).

One of the most op changes that we rallied against on Testlive, and they pushed through anyway, was the AOE knockback. They should have changed it back to how it was before (on the next hit, not an aoe cast spell), but they went ahead and made it stupid.

[yuisoku]

I saw my little baby conq owning lots of PvP 10 players with her green/blue mixed trash gear.

Feint attack hitting 1k per hit against high geared soldiers, duhhh

[Thutkemi]

I saw my little baby conq owning lots of PvP 10 players with her green/blue mixed trash gear.

Feint attack hitting 1k per hit against high geared soldiers, duhhh

That's interesting. I'd love to see some screens of that, considering I don't usually get those numbers in full PVP T2 with Sogoth. Maybe on heavily debuffed soldiers and a crit?

[PunkJiuJitsu]

You're basically saying "Well Conqs/soldiers aren't overpowered... as long as you don't duel them with HALF OF THE CHARACTER CLASSES... .

No I am not "basically" saying that. Please read it again(you're doing it wrong). This is a team based game when it comes to minis. If you can't understand that then you have much more to worry about than heavies lol. Are you telling me I should NOT focus targets with my team(that is genius! I'll try that!)? And are you also saying A tank class should not have the ability to tank?
#very-logical-stuff

[Geldour]

needs more dmg imo

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7f40ed51.jpg

http://i848.photobucket.com/albums/a...pse2ad4e1e.jpg

[yuisoku]

That's interesting. I'd love to see some screens of that, considering I don't usually get those numbers in full PVP T2 with Sogoth. Maybe on heavily debuffed soldiers and a crit?

Ofc, conq debuffs enemies fully in few secs