My annoyance with AA

[Chass-]

I played Diablo 3... yeah, it was bad but it had a good saying: If you feel something is NEEDED/FORCED on you because the game was unplayable without it, it is broken. Example: Void of Madness for a DT, its simply the best AA by far for the class in both pve and pvp. Nothing does evne come close to it, it bascially ruins the idea of all the other last AA's for the DT and its the same for many other classes, which is kind of a waste of ''possible playstyles''. I love the idea of some of the AA picks but they are simply too weak. I assumed the idea of having AA(and feat points) was a way to give players a chance to pick different stuff, and make the character play the way they wanted it to be played, yet with most classes you have one major AA, two silver AA's or one that stand out as far superior and therefor kind of forced on the player. Am I wrong in this?

[Texan615]

Without a doubt, there are definitely some class 720 hr AA's that are considerably weaker than others.

In fact, I think Demo has it the worst, I don't know of any demos that even use any of their 3 720 hr class AA's.

[lok502]

I like Unleash the Underworld on my conflag demo. Crits consistently and I've seen 10K hits on targets (I know it might not seem much to some players).
Conqs have been screwed with AAs until recently (I still don't think they're as good as other classes).

My main complaint with the AAs is the gain vs time invested in 5pt feats. The final point in many of them requires 500-900hrs but will only give 1%, same as you'd get with 1 point or 18-36hrs time training. I think 5 pt feats should scale more, especially the 4th and 5th point.

[Bvis]

I played Diablo 3... yeah, it was bad but it had a good saying: If you feel something is NEEDED/FORCED on you because the game was unplayable without it, it is broken. Example: Void of Madness for a DT, its simply the best AA by far for the class in both pve and pvp. Nothing does evne come close to it, it bascially ruins the idea of all the other last AA's for the DT and its the same for many other classes, which is kind of a waste of ''possible playstyles''. I love the idea of some of the AA picks but they are simply too weak. I assumed the idea of having AA(and feat points) was a way to give players a chance to pick different stuff, and make the character play the way they wanted it to be played, yet with most classes you have one major AA, two silver AA's or one that stand out as far superior and therefor kind of forced on the player. Am I wrong in this?

The real annoyance with VoM is that not only is it vastly superior to the other AAs but that a DT who doesn't have it is essentially useless for tanking, DPS, or PvP. Well I guess a DT without VoM could be a flagbot in PvP but certainly wouldn't be killing anybody. There is no other class that I can think of that is so dependent on a single AA.

[Chass-]

The real annoyance with VoM is that not only is it vastly superior to the other AAs but that a DT who doesn't have it is essentially useless for tanking, DPS, or PvP. Well I guess a DT without VoM could be a flagbot in PvP but certainly wouldn't be killing anybody. There is no other class that I can think of that is so dependent on a single AA.

Well, conq to some extent in pve, battlefield commander is by far the best PVE ability, yet far less cool than some of the other ''sivler perks''. One last push in a viable option, but even then battlefield commander MIGHT be the best option in many situations. Ranger has taking the shot ... You can go with stun and deadly draw instead but ... No, TTS is the best. But yeah you are right... DT is the most extreme of these classes, but I do consider battlefield commander to be the Conq's VOM.

[Shax84]

A DT without VoM can still do some ok damage but not nearly as high. VoM was needed for the DTs to gain enough dps to make up for the lack of aggro abilities. After all, they got only one, Irritate. Seal of Chaos is a spell on 1 minute cooldown. As the game is now, you would be stupid not to use VoM. How I believe AA was intended, it was supposed to be an advantage over players without AA. VoM is an enormous advantage, not only when tanking PvE but also in all other aspects of the game.

Since this topic is in general discussion, I compare with other classes perks.

The Demonologists two slot perks are very bad. Any Demonologist with his brain in order would not pick any of these over pairing Ring of Fire, Bindings of the Skylord or Cacodemon. Heck, even Renegotiation is better when paired with the previous mentioned than the two slot perks. Unleash the Underworld? Sure, it hits nice, but you are dependant of getting the quickened buff, and it hits only three targets. < Overloaded Shockblast any time, followed up with Bindings and Deathray (WoF). I'd say Demonologist is about as dependant of Ring of Fire x5 as DT is of VoM. That perk makes Waves of Flame the superior spell for any fight where you can stand 8 meters or closer to your target, and it does the same damage in 5 seconds that you need to cast 5 FoGs to get. We have other classes with very good perks. The Guardian is highly dependant of Stall the Advance. No other Guardian class perks come close to this. Conqueror has Battlefield Commander that is very good after the remake of it. ToS has Coils of the Serpent that adds a substantial burst of dps while the other AoE abilites are up. Or a 2nd big heal, or a Shielding spell. All three very viable and good. Same goes for BS. Not sure about PoM. The Rogue perks are in general good. An Assassin could not do hard nukes as now without Cover of Dusk, that also helps the tanks. A Barb is helped by Without Warning to get stance procs. HoX has extra self resurrection plus strength and intelligence boost while transformed, and many does not think of Enslaved Fire with 25 seconds cooldown that gives 3-6k AoE damage and 4,5 second stun, or Hunger for More that gives full damage on Hell Strikes on three targets. Necro has **** perks.

Commonly for all of these are that they are not gear dependant to work, at all. Void of Madness is very gear dependant how well it works. You need 16% crit and hit, and preferably some 300-400 magic damage to go with it before it gets really good. Getting the gear to use this takes more time than training the AAs themselves. But I see your point. Everything else but VoM is a lot weaker and not even close to comparison of it. Nerf VoM and DT can get agression problems, though they can lock aggro with good gear and right spec as of now. DT is a complicated class for sure. Remodeling the other AAs would be a better idea, to not make them completely useless as they are now. :-)

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

Ranger has taking the shot ... You can go with stun and deadly draw instead but ... No, TTS is the best.

at least, in groups and raids deadly draw and jarring shot (or eventually clout) are a lot better than tts, while for dt's vom is the way to go in both pve and pvp...

[Monkeyy]

Revamp the AA trees and and make more end AAs useful. That way you can play your class in different ways,more fun. AA that no one use is dead meat and no content.

[Baasura]

Ye it would be fun to have more viable AA for every class. But i really mean more, like at least 5-6 silver or gold options.
Right now some classes have just 1 or 2 viable choices. And like some are defined by their AA.
Personally i like 2 of hox gold perks, pot and ftb. They are fun, unique and slightly change your playstyle.

[Deathsader]

Ye it would be fun to have more viable AA for every class. But i really mean more, like at least 5-6 silver or gold options.
Right now some classes have just 1 or 2 viable choices. And like some are defined by their AA.
Personally i like 2 of hox gold perks, pot and ftb. They are fun, unique and slightly change your playstyle.

I have to agree, HoX class, although weaker then the rest, has 1 really great thing going for it. And that is that almost all of their class specific AA's are viable for something. Where as another poster put, DT's without VoM is really pointless. And it's not due to VoM being to OP to pass up, but rather it being something thats needed in order for the class to simply generate hate. Would be nice to see them buff the other AA's to make them comparable to some degree.