Is it time to retire T1+W1?

[Petridish]

* I don't think that "forcing" people to progress, as suggested by OP, is a solution to the problem. Very casual players who don't want to progress are more likely to quit than to adapt to the situation. In any case, they wouldn't be the material you are looking for to do the content which is currently dead.

I think forcing people into a progression path is exactly what should be needed.

People should *have* to do T1 and T2 content (all of it) before moving up to T3. Otherwise what's to stop them hitting 80 and rocking up with no knowledge of what raiding is about, or being extremely poorly geared? Nothing. At least making them do T1 and T2 will (hopefully) teach them the ropes about how to play in a raiding environment, and garner them a few epics along the way.

Funcom seemingly removed the progression lockouts to assist those people that play many alts (so you don't have to do T2 on every character in order to take it into T3), but their introduction of AA falls afoul of that premise (i.e. Funcom seem to suggest for people to focus on a single character).

Granted, this gets a bit muddy with the addition of the Khitai dungeons because the gear is generally better than T2 gear, yet it hasn't required you to raid to achieve it. So the gear would be there, but not the experience.

If a very casual player does not want to follow that progression path, then that's fine. But they have no place in T3 in that case. They will cause nothing but problems.

[Rathothis]

I think forcing people into a progression path is exactly what should be needed.

People should *have* to do T1 and T2 content (all of it) before moving up to T3. Otherwise what's to stop them hitting 80 and rocking up with no knowledge of what raiding is about, or being extremely poorly geared? Nothing. At least making them do T1 and T2 will (hopefully) teach them the ropes about how to play in a raiding environment, and garner them a few epics along the way.

Funcom seemingly removed the progression lockouts to assist those people that play many alts (so you don't have to do T2 on every character in order to take it into T3), but their introduction of AA falls afoul of that premise (i.e. Funcom seem to suggest for people to focus on a single character).

Granted, this gets a bit muddy with the addition of the Khitai dungeons because the gear is generally better than T2 gear, yet it hasn't required you to raid to achieve it. So the gear would be there, but not the experience.

If a very casual player does not want to follow that progression path, then that's fine. But they have no place in T3 in that case. They will cause nothing but problems.

Well, I by contrast would assume that it falls upon you as a raid group to either (i) teach that new player what he needs to know to be an asset to the raid, or (ii) tell him that, sadly, this isn't working out and let him go.

[Misiuggah]

I'll just stick to doing in AoC what I like too as long as it's possible. Then delete, cancel sub and move on. No bad feelings, but some fun memories.

Pour him another one!

[Tianma]

A decent server population.

define decent population, please.

[Chass-]

What about giving Unchained T1-T2 raids? Like, ... I dunno, hard modes of these older raid instances. Example: Instead of on poison boss you fight two of them, and twice the adds and twice the poison? Bosses with more hp and more dps,but still the same encounter... I dont care what the bosses drop or if they drop anything at all, I just want some challenging content

[Anubium]

Why should they cancel t1/wing1 raids? Its a good starting point for people to get into raiding, usually easier to lead and run and get loot from than the requirements of even wing2 and tier3/4 gear/raids.

If the population is there, pug raids fill, then the raids should be left for new players to gear up their characters, old players to try out new specs or gear up alts...and have fun.

"Unchained" versions should require that they have better drops. You can always make them 'harder' by only going in with 12 people vs a full raid if you want harder content with the same loot.

[cins]

Is this a trick question? I sure hope it is. But just in case it isn't: No it's not.

The actual pve difficulty curve is pretty good and don't even try to contradict me on this. But I know someone will try. Therefore; it goes from mindless beating in Atzel/Onyx and semi mindless beating with small exceptions (how many times did Kylikki's Spellguards kill your noob ass until the coin dropped and you noticed those filling bars?), exceptions get more and more complicated until Hathor Ka/Arbanus start to throw raidwipers that demand decent reaction times on top of the complex tactics, then ramp these things up until boss fights reach the levels of insanity we see on stuff like T'ian'an or Jade Citadel.

Except that game itself is utterly incapable of laying this out for players so it's virtually impossible to figure out for newbies without outside help. A new player couldn't even imagine how much of a gigantic difficulty gap lies between a level 80 place named Onyx Chambers and another level 80 place called Jade Citadel without being told about it by other players (game gives zero indication that there's any difference).

What we need is NOT nerfs or buffs to anything, but a loud and clear way of hammering the really well made progression into players' skulls inside the game. Raidlock questlines like we had before doesn't work well for this but it was slightly better than the nothing we currently have.

Edited by Arishanya to remove profanity. Please remember profanity (even disguised with *s and 1s) is against the Social Guidelines

[Rathothis]

What we need is NOT nerfs or buffs to anything, but a loud and clear way of hammering the really well made progression into players' skulls inside the game. Raidlock questlines like we had before doesn't work well for this but it was slightly better than the nothing we currently have.

What would also help is players not routinely asking for "AA, xp, gear" for the most trivial content that you can do with more or less fresh level 80s.

But yes, some kind of indication as to the level of difficulty of the content would probably be helpful. It works okay for raids with the Tx system (well, there's the issue with T3.5 being harder than T4, but nobody PUGs T3.5 anyway), maybe something along these lines could also work for dungeons?

[Drest]

Hehe i see the opposite problem at times. People that have well geared toons that facerolls through the high tiers, now bring freshly dinged 80 thinking they know the fight so there will be no problem. They proceed to go full burn on their sin, pull aggro and die instantly because they don't know when the aggro resets or when to use the aggro dumps.

[Boesch]

Hehe i see the opposite problem at times. People that have well geared toons that facerolls through the high tiers, now bring freshly dinged 80 thinking they know the fight so there will be no problem. They proceed to go full burn on their sin, pull aggro and die instantly because they don't know when the aggro resets or when to use the aggro dumps.

Maybe the tanks need to learn to hold hate instead of getting humiliated by people in blues.