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Thread: Balance of stamina and mana depletion

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whalar View Post
    Well base health of tos is 2.7k and dont tell me you run naked and without bufs or food. I really dont see that being relevant.
    But sure if tos have big issues with mana that should be fixed. I must admit that i have utmost respect for true healers (not kd wh...s) and always try to assist them in minis.
    I just stated that i dont see them without mana as your statement suggest. So people please stop with overstatements it dont help anyone.
    I am not overstating but telling how my experience is. I also get many tells and PMs from others stating the same. Its actually you that is mistating as you have no experience here and are just stating what you think, versus fact. I am stating fact.

    Btw i tried on testlive, debuffed straw man, SF, SC, and los. i cast sf 3 times and los 15 times before i run out of mana. But yes i can see some issues with high mana cost spels.
    You cannot cast sf 3x in a row. This example is completly false. Please do not make up facts.

    Do you remember how it was for melees before stam energy revamp? And it lasted for years like that. Was that fair?
    so here you admit there is a problem, and now justify it by saying you had problems so we should?

    To answer your question yes i do play healer but its bs, not caster one. Dont have mana issue with him.
    BS are very different. As stated, I am only referring to tos and pom. There are a number of posts in the old forums under tos and poms about mana issues. I can link or you can go and do the research yourself.

    However, I will save you and let you know as a tos player, there is an issue when compared to stamina. Dont compare, and I am ok. Compare, its not even.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcorp View Post
    You cannot cast sf 3x in a row. This example is completly false. Please do not make up facts.
    Never said it was in a row, but i said i casted 3 sf and 15 los, before i run out of mana. so when sf run out i cast it again. I guess that natural mana regen and mana taps helps a bit.
    But you are right i dont play tos so not speaking from experience, Just didnt noticed them running around without mana.
    Also i agree with you that some spells on tos cost to much mana. Like you said, debuf, sf,sc, heals and you are already at half mana bar, i can see how drain spec dt would pose huge problem.
    So Im not making up facts m8 but also not overstating them.
    2k health is not same as 2.7k, also what tos dont run mark of set. so saying tos base health is 2k is making up facts.
    See how its lame to lash personal attacks on someone. And how its easy.
    But like i already said, after doing some testing i agree with you that tos can have mana issues in pvp.

  3. #43

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    i agree stamina needs some adjustments, at least for some class, i only know of guard and barb, dunno about the rest, specially hybrids (hox, bs)...

    but i think that the mana might be right at moment, and healers not able to constantly heal up, gets things more tactical in terms of knowing when to go to battle or wait...many pp go like crazy into battle to try and get a kill on their stats, then die cause healer was not rdy yet, its their own fault (i sometimes do that and I KNOW its my fault, and dont yell at the healer) - surviving and staying alive is a personal objective and skill of each player, healers are there to help not to babysit...

    regarding pp sending messages about NO HEALS to healers like some of you describe, for me that means they might need a bit of L2P on team wise
    ---
    for example, ive seen rangers yelling on group channel to get heals, in the middle of fights 6vs6 all together and balanced, while me, and some other melee classes constantly fighting and getting hit, and surviving by a niche simple cause the healer kept us alive, and when he couldn't managed we all noticed the difficulty and then just retreat to survive and let the healer regen mana or CD his abilities or whatever is needed, so, this demonstrates lack of L2P from ranger IMO!!! (dam a ranger yelling for heals )

  4. #44

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    When it comes to a ToS, they can easy do all the Things, i made a worst case scenario, and even then i could do blue/green/sf as was complained about earlier for 50 seconds before reserves ran out, that was worst case so no featpoints, buffs or potions.

    Facerolling and spamming spells/heals ended up with me at full mana at the 2min 30 sec mark, and i even forgot to drink a second mana flask after the first ran out...

    you can see it here: http://youtu.be/h9oZBAZKcpU

    Pvp is diffrent, but this just shows it is no general problem with the mana of the class. If you want a change you have to make it pvp-spesific, or spell spesific. Any flat change will break the class.
    I am Stian ingame...

  5. #45

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    I don't know what it proves, even if i admit mana is the last of issues for the ToS.

    In PvP, since you can stay in combat 2 or 3 minutes (thx necro dots) or being focused heavily every 10sec (Jhebbal Fag), mana is much harder to maintain. Most of mana management in ToS is only mana tap, so in situations where you make 0 or low damage (no targets at range, pvp geared tanks, bubbles, Louhi) you have more troubles with it.
    Your Storm Field critically healed Officer of the Wolves for 7038.

  6. #46

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    Never had an issue with mana on my ToS until they messed with sprint revamp and stamina. Now both my ToS and PoM are mana eaters and you consistenly have to worry about not only to attack with but if you can afford to spend that much mana at the time on whatever spell. My ToS is decently geared with Full T2 and some T3 and I run out of mana. My PoM only has mainly khitia faction blues and some T3 and mana is a b!tch.

    Demo the same, I kill 2 people I am out of mana. If I don't die I spend most of teh match close to 50% or less mana while managing it. If there is a focusing kind of PoM against me then I have absolutley NO mana the whole game because I lose Demon Heart.

    Whenever I play my melee I rarely even have to pop a stam pot if at all. There is a big difference and right now anything past a 5 minute fight mana becomes really annoying...
    Doomsayer 2008

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    Never had an issue with mana on my ToS until they messed with sprint revamp and stamina. Now both my ToS and PoM are mana eaters and you consistenly have to worry about not only to attack with but if you can afford to spend that much mana at the time on whatever spell. My ToS is decently geared with Full T2 and some T3 and I run out of mana. My PoM only has mainly khitia faction blues and some T3 and mana is a b!tch.

    Demo the same, I kill 2 people I am out of mana. If I don't die I spend most of teh match close to 50% or less mana while managing it. If there is a focusing kind of PoM against me then I have absolutley NO mana the whole game because I lose Demon Heart.

    Whenever I play my melee I rarely even have to pop a stam pot if at all. There is a big difference and right now anything past a 5 minute fight mana becomes really annoying...
    But that's just it, you cannot compare them apples to apples. Stamina does not equal mana. The comparison shows a favorable hand to mana if it were apples to apples.

    some of melee tools don't even use stam, while every single thing a priest does uses mana. Also, don't get me started on the advantage stam pots give over mana pots.

    I do think its cute how some people are rolling a tos and doing a few moves and saying they are fine. Its pretty entertaining given they have zero knowledge and think they can just figure it out in 5 minutes.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcorp View Post
    But that's just it, you cannot compare them apples to apples. Stamina does not equal mana. The comparison shows a favorable hand to mana if it were apples to apples.

    some of melee tools don't even use stam, while every single thing a priest does uses mana. Also, don't get me started on the advantage stam pots give over mana pots.

    I do think its cute how some people are rolling a tos and doing a few moves and saying they are fine. Its pretty entertaining given they have zero knowledge and think they can just figure it out in 5 minutes.
    I have been playing a ToS since 2008, it was my 3rd toon created. From then to now I can say I enjoyed it more then than now. And it has nothing to do with the instant win pre 1.4 Storm Crown, it has all to do with how stupid mana managment is. ToS used to be the mana battery, now it's just a pain in the ass class to play. Matter anything with mana is a pain in the ass to play for any fight over 5 minutes because mana is such an issue. I spec eveything I can on my demo for raids to reduce mana costs and still with Archefiend with 5 AA points I run out of mana or nearly close too.

    It's not until I get a Conq, Shammy, and ToS in my group at one time do I not have to worry about mana. Used to be just a ToS could do that alone. That's my complaint, bring back the group mana utility of the ToS. Please...
    Doomsayer 2008

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    I have been playing a ToS since 2008, it was my 3rd toon created. From then to now I can say I enjoyed it more then than now. And it has nothing to do with the instant win pre 1.4 Storm Crown, it has all to do with how stupid mana managment is. ToS used to be the mana battery, now it's just a pain in the ass class to play. Matter anything with mana is a pain in the ass to play for any fight over 5 minutes because mana is such an issue. I spec eveything I can on my demo for raids to reduce mana costs and still with Archefiend with 5 AA points I run out of mana or nearly close too.

    It's not until I get a Conq, Shammy, and ToS in my group at one time do I not have to worry about mana. Used to be just a ToS could do that alone. That's my complaint, bring back the group mana utility of the ToS. Please...
    I can tell you that funcom motive when adjusting tos and pom was just that, your last statement. It was that the tos was the best group utility, best dps, best everything. The poms were suppose to be group utility according to launch definitions, but the tos ended up better. I think it was the love of the tos dev that made it so, but thats just my opinion. So they wanted to help the pom out. Gave the pom some changes (why removie the poison group buff IDK), but did more damage to tos with rousing shock, mana and etc. The poms now fair better in pvp, but at the cost of hurting another class.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcorp View Post
    I can tell you that funcom motive when adjusting tos and pom was just that, your last statement. It was that the tos was the best group utility, best dps, best everything. The poms were suppose to be group utility according to launch definitions, but the tos ended up better. I think it was the love of the tos dev that made it so, but thats just my opinion. So they wanted to help the pom out. Gave the pom some changes (why removie the poison group buff IDK), but did more damage to tos with rousing shock, mana and etc. The poms now fair better in pvp, but at the cost of hurting another class.
    Well, I suppose it does not have to be ToS, but the fact you have to rely on not only your spec but 2-3 others to keep your mana going is a bit much. One mana battery a group should be enough for anygame...like I said, the only time I don't even need to worry about mana is when a ToS, Bear, and Conq are in my group, which does not happen often.

    Running out of mana in PvE when your only casting the same 2-3 spells is plain stupid, I could see if everything on your hotbar is going on cooldown sure you deserve to run out, but only using the same 2-3 spells...completely lame.
    Last edited by Suctum; 19th April 2013 at 22:07.
    Doomsayer 2008

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