Balance of stamina and mana depletion

[LunaticAsylumLA]

My hox often has stam issues due to ranger traps

The last two times I ran out of stamina on a HoX in a course of several months were DPSing a strawman (I drank one potion to avoid it) and engaging in a fight with a DT and a ranger. Rangers never posed a problem, but a bottle can always help if it happens (though I carry none, as stamina is broken).

[Bortukali]

could one other problem about casters loosing MANA fast is because they all feat themselves to damage hard on others and get huge K/D!? avoiding feating stuff to increase mana on certain spells and so??
dunno anything about casters, but if what i ask is true, then there's only one solution:
PLAY has a TEAM PLAYER instead of K/D WHORING

P.S.:
for example, i see 90% rangers going down pretty easy against sins/barbs, and one of the reasons, is that they use tamarin tigers gear to max out damage and criticals so they can farm others for k/d and since not using pvp gear they get more vulnerable (also against spells), but i know at least one ranger that never hits me has hard as the others do but also his hard to kill (i asked him and he plays balanced feat from team work, and his the only one that when i attack my stamina goes way way down cause he puts traps for)

[Ieronon]

Casters do feat mana saving/gaining feats and even then get out of resource eventually.

Stamina users don't feat stamina saving/gaining feats because they just don't need them. Well they don't feat them unless they happen to also grant energy because they demanded it, since those feats "were useless" without it.

[mrcorp]

could one other problem about casters loosing MANA fast is because they all feat themselves to damage hard on others and get huge K/D!? avoiding feating stuff to increase mana on certain spells and so??

Again, speaking on the tos behalf, I don't think so for us. We all take mana helping feats, even have natural mana regen skills. But 4 heals and out of mana is a bit excessive, don't you think? That's 4 combos and your out of stam on a melee. And mind you our heal only heals us for half. That's not DPS.

[Baasura]

I dont know why everyone exaggerate in this discussions. 4 heals and out of mana, that would mean that i would see healers without mana all the time which is just not case.
Most annoying mana drain i guess is from dt, and on tos it can be hard to avoid it if he run into yours SF. But dont think it is that ground breaking as you would like us to believe.
Honestly maybe mana cost for heals should be bit lower if that is such big issue. on my bs i dont really have that big trouble with mana management but that may be my fault cause as true healer i suck and act more aggressive and dmg oriented.

[Deathsader]

In all honesty I don't think stamina is a problem as is. It feels as though when playing a melee toon, that things are working as they properly should be. Now when I log on something like lets say my ToS, which I very rarely play (ironically the reason I hate it is due to how fast it goes through mana, and I dislike the stress of that issue), I find that my battle is with my mana bar, and not with the bosses I am fighting. This tells me that mana should be brought up to par with stamina rather then the other way around. Since Stamina feels like it's working as intended and I can focus on the fight with the boss, rather then the fight with my energy supply. They should just adjust spells to cost less. You can still run out of stamina, it's not an impossibility. I find on my Guardian when I run out of stamina pots, if I don't hit Plexus Strike (something I never have to use if I have stamina pots) I will run out of stamina. This tells me that you are capable of losing stamina as fights progress. However I will agree with the original poster that there is an balancing issue when you compare stamina vs mana. However I disagree with their conclusion on how to fix the problem, since it will do nothing more then slow down a game which if anything needs to be sped up, not slowed down.

[mrcorp]

I dont know why everyone exaggerate in this discussions. 4 heals and out of mana, that would mean that i would see healers without mana all the time which is just not case.

That's because I am referring to the tos. When you run over to us jumping and we don't heal, often its because we don't have mana. I am going to make a wild assumption and assume you never played a healer and do not realize the difficulty of having everyone expect you to be top dpser, healer, and CC for you as a melee player. In fact its quite funny and we (healers) laugh about it in private chat when you do that. Im going to include poms as a many a pom pm me when you all do it to them.

After we cast sf (1000+ mana right there), sc, and a debuff, which mosts tos run all the time, we have roughly 4000 mana left. each LoS heal is 600 mana. You do the math. Oh, and 4 of those can be cast in 2 secs as people run up and jump up and down in front of you expecting you to help them.

I also bet you didn't realize our base health is around 2k at 80.

Look at my 80 guard. Highest dps combo is around 300 stamina. We have over 1000 mana costs spells compared to a 250 average stam costs.

Like I said, the issue is the costs of spells. It needs to be reduced by half, and priests will be better. Still have to somewhat manage, but not in the hole. How many times are you tapped with a no stamina drain? I am hit with mana taps and debuffs that stop mana regen every other mini.

Also, look at your charge spell. I don't see a stam cost associated with that. That doesn't sound right and perhaps the tool tip is wrong, never checked it. But if that's the case, then remove our stam costs from our CCs as it interrupts movement similar to a root.

Looking at guards buffs like volcanic rage and stance changes. No cost to mana. TOS buffs and debuffs all cost mana. Simply not fair to compare melee to caster mana to stamina since they are used completely differently. I think part of the problem is we are all assuming they are the same just renamed for the type of class we play. That's not the case, clearly.

[strangerism]

That's because I am referring to the tos. When you run over to us jumping and we don't heal, often its because we don't have mana. I am going to make a wild assumption and assume you never played a healer and do not realize the difficulty of having everyone expect you to be top dpser, healer, and CC for you as a melee player. In fact its quite funny and we (healers) laugh about it in private chat when you do that. Im going to include poms as a many a pom pm me when you all do it to them.

After we cast sf (1000+ mana right there), sc, and a debuff, which mosts tos run all the time, we have roughly 4000 mana left. each LoS heal is 600 mana. You do the math. Oh, and 4 of those can be cast in 2 secs as people run up and jump up and down in front of you expecting you to help them.

I also bet you didn't realize our base health is around 2k at 80.

Look at my 80 guard. Highest dps combo is around 300 stamina. We have over 1000 mana costs spells compared to a 250 average stam costs.

Like I said, the issue is the costs of spells. It needs to be reduced by half, and priests will be better. Still have to somewhat manage, but not in the hole. How many times are you tapped with a no stamina drain? I am hit with mana taps and debuffs that stop mana regen every other mini.

Also, look at your charge spell. I don't see a stam cost associated with that. That doesn't sound right and perhaps the tool tip is wrong, never checked it. But if that's the case, then remove our stam costs from our CCs as it interrupts movement similar to a root.

Looking at guards buffs like volcanic rage and stance changes. No cost to mana. TOS buffs and debuffs all cost mana. Simply not fair to compare melee to caster mana to stamina since they are used completely differently. I think part of the problem is we are all assuming they are the same just renamed for the type of class we play. That's not the case, clearly.

I agree, I am playing a low level tos (27 atm) and mana in pvp can go down quite fast when casting heals if you don't keep the right rotation that reduce mana costs all the time. But doing rotation in pvp is quite unachievable in my opinion. It seems the only viable tactic for casters/healers atm is to jump around and only cast instants or cc. I know I could do more practice with kiting and spell rotation but guile tactic with instants has better results.

[Baasura]

I agree, I am playing a low level tos (27 atm) and mana in pvp can go down quite fast when casting heals if you don't keep the right rotation that reduce mana costs all the time. But doing rotation in pvp is quite unachievable in my opinion. It seems the only viable tactic for casters/healers atm is to jump around and only cast instants or cc. I know I could do more practice with kiting and spell rotation but guile tactic with instants has better results.

I dont see how relevant is experience from lvl 27 m8.

[Baasura]

That's because I am referring to the tos. When you run over to us jumping and we don't heal, often its because we don't have mana. I am going to make a wild assumption and assume you never played a healer and do not realize the difficulty of having everyone expect you to be top dpser, healer, and CC for you as a melee player. In fact its quite funny and we (healers) laugh about it in private chat when you do that. Im going to include poms as a many a pom pm me when you all do it to them.

After we cast sf (1000+ mana right there), sc, and a debuff, which mosts tos run all the time, we have roughly 4000 mana left. each LoS heal is 600 mana. You do the math. Oh, and 4 of those can be cast in 2 secs as people run up and jump up and down in front of you expecting you to help them.

I also bet you didn't realize our base health is around 2k at 80.

Look at my 80 guard. Highest dps combo is around 300 stamina. We have over 1000 mana costs spells compared to a 250 average stam costs.

Like I said, the issue is the costs of spells. It needs to be reduced by half, and priests will be better. Still have to somewhat manage, but not in the hole. How many times are you tapped with a no stamina drain? I am hit with mana taps and debuffs that stop mana regen every other mini.

Also, look at your charge spell. I don't see a stam cost associated with that. That doesn't sound right and perhaps the tool tip is wrong, never checked it. But if that's the case, then remove our stam costs from our CCs as it interrupts movement similar to a root.

Looking at guards buffs like volcanic rage and stance changes. No cost to mana. TOS buffs and debuffs all cost mana. Simply not fair to compare melee to caster mana to stamina since they are used completely differently. I think part of the problem is we are all assuming they are the same just renamed for the type of class we play. That's not the case, clearly.

Well base health of tos is 2.7k and dont tell me you run naked and without bufs or food. I really dont see that being relevant.
But sure if tos have big issues with mana that should be fixed. I must admit that i have utmost respect for true healers (not kd wh...s) and always try to assist them in minis.
I just stated that i dont see them without mana as your statement suggest. So people please stop with overstatements it dont help anyone.
Btw i tried on testlive, debuffed straw man, SF, SC, and los. i cast sf 3 times and los 15 times before i run out of mana. But yes i can see some issues with high mana cost spels.
Do you remember how it was for melees before stam energy revamp? And it lasted for years like that. Was that fair?
To answer your question yes i do play healer but its bs, not caster one. Dont have mana issue with him.