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Thread: Balance of stamina and mana depletion

  1. #21

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    I agree with Ieronon, combos should drain more stamina that they do now. Not to make it like mana with mages as those two ressources don't work the same way but still make stamina something to watch and be carefull about.
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  2. #22

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    Hi,

    First of all thanks for the answers

    I think it's ok for more pve oriented players to give their opinion on this matter because changing stuff in that domain will certainly have an impact in pve. I have been hesitating at first to post this thread in a more generally themed sub-forum instead of the pvp one. I opted to post in the pvp forum because I think that's in pvp that any imbalance issue is the most frustrating.

    I'd like to answer something to the argument that casters already have the advantage of range : ranged classes already have smaller energy pools than melee. Every ranged class has a 9s energy pool while melees have 14s energy pool - without AAs. Fully AA'ed you gain up to 2.5s of sprinting depending of your archetype, rogues being the ones that gain the most and mages the least. That also means that Dash gives less energy to ranged classes than it does to melees since I believe Dash's energy gain is %-based. Shouldn't that cover the advantage of being a ranged class already ?
    Last edited by Ieronon; 8th April 2013 at 12:09.
    -- Ieronon, QQror --
    -- Deutter, holy potato --

  3. #23

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    The energy bar change created the situation where a soldier in full plate can engage the battle with multiple targets deal and sustain considerable amount of damage and when is like at 5% of his health put all defends up and run like a cat. Balls!
    I see a lot of DT doing so, coming in wacking everything with VOM and then running away.

    This is totally unfair against low protection melee classes like barb and sin.

    You are not supposed to have that kind of mobility wearing plate.

    Bolloks bolloks and bolloks.

    I play a DT by the way.

  4. #24

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    Maybe there is a chance to limit the dps output for soldiers with stamina. Increase cost on abilities or lower the general amount of stamina a soldier has.

    Lower energy and energy regen for all classes dependant on armor class, so a soldier will be heavy and not so mobile, while hitting like a truck if you get close to him(like now). Sin will be like now.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownSoldier View Post
    as a rogue, for PvE, i only use stamina pots in coppice, in raids depends on my group a bit (some other class might be feated to boost stamina in group for example, or not)

    on pvp, i never need stamina pots, not even when i get hitted with someone's stamina drain spells/combos

    before the energy thingy came out i was using stamina pots everywhere i went as much as health ones, either to sprint or do combos, but now its useless, and in THOSE DAYS, it really matter the timing to sprint or use combos or use deflection stance (not speaking of the tanks defensive stance), and now useless

    funcom said that the energy would bring more tactical stuff to fights (specially pvp), and to be honest i saw that, but not like this, for the moment is more of an annoying thing than tactical, specially when the energy bar gets screwed and bugged, etc etc




    in that case they should have never created the energy in the first place
    Same here, I loved stam management back in the day, was one of the few advocating against. I just fear that they mess it up some more

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mardragon7 View Post
    Maybe there is a chance to limit the dps output for soldiers with stamina. Increase cost on abilities or lower the general amount of stamina a soldier has.

    Lower energy and energy regen for all classes dependant on armor class, so a soldier will be heavy and not so mobile, while hitting like a truck if you get close to him(like now). Sin will be like now.
    That would be a horrible change. To nerf tanks you need to tweak things to make it less forgiving not transform them into a pillar now and then. Mobility of tanks isn't the issue, they move as fast as any melee and it's normal.
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  7. #27

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    lol, energy is stupid. EVERY class sprints forever, there is no issue here. My issue is that stam users can spam combos all day while their green bar sits at 80%. I kill 2 or 3 people and I am out of mana, I literaly have to remove myself from the fight for 10-15 seconds waiting to get enough to make it happen again.

    If a tank or ranger do that, it's not because they ever even looked at their stamina bar, it's they were at 5% health and sprinted away to live. If I'm at 5% health, 80% of the time I'm dying.

    See the difference? And that's on a Demo, my PoM running veangeance I got 4x the complaints about mana.
    Doomsayer 2008

  8. #28

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    Nerfing tanks dps shouldn't be buy hindering there movement or having a restrictive stamina management. It would make the classes dull.

    I agree stamina management should be something to think about as a melee but i believe it's wrong to compare it to mages mana. The two don't need the same kind of limitations. Not to mention inequalities among classes. My hox often has stam issues due to ranger traps while my conq or barb never has and my necro rarely has mana issues even though geared/perked awefully (unless of course if spellweaving for too long).

    Edited by Arishanya. Rather than reply to a flaming post, report it as flaming/trolling is against the Social Guidelines.
    Last edited by Arishanya; 17th April 2013 at 23:43.
    Vali~The Mental Mushroom
    Vehl~The Pink Flamingo
    Vahlie~Redhead's bane
    Tisane~Kettle of Xotli
    Nvah~ . . .

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corais View Post
    Welcome to the pvp forums. As for OPs topic imo in PvP the stamina/mana balance is fine. Casters dont need to manage combos or range, so they at least got the mana management to care for. Only HoX got the short end of the stick again.
    Not true for healers. I know you said c asters, but priests have a real issue here. Poms and TOS have been complaining about it after the recent revamps. See, if I heal 4 times, I am out of mana. I can heal 4 times in seconds on my tos. Then if I get hit with a tap, such as a DT or necro or ranger, then I am out for 10+seconds. Makes the class completly useless. Then I have to regen. Sure I have food and pots running, as well as taps, but the taps are useless if I cant run them because i am out of mana.

    Now, to the OP, this is a different issue that I raise. That is the issue of casting mana costs. Heals cost too much mana. Lower the cost of mana on spells, and we would be better offer.

    Also, taps are too strong. No class should be able to completly drain and then prohibit mana regen for a period of time. I know the drain is the tap and the preventitive is something different, but it all needs a slight adjustment IMO.

    Of course I speak from the priests side only.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vehl View Post
    I agree with Ieronon, combos should drain more stamina that they do now. Not to make it like mana with mages as those two ressources don't work the same way but still make stamina something to watch and be carefull about.
    Not sure what you mean by stamina and mana not working the same way. After the sprinting revamp they are conceptually equivalent. The only difference is that not being able to use any abilities is more punishing when you are in the middle of the fray than when you are at range. This also ties in with Mrcorp's comment from a ToS point of view as ToSes are a "middle of the fray" class and thus the sitting duck effect hits them harder than it does e.g. a demo.

    But overall, I agree that a more restrictive stamina management for some classes doesn't sound like a good idea to fix class balance issues. First, it would just be a gloss over, and secondly - and more importantly - being a sitting duck isn't exactly fun, so fights should normally not be decided on that basis.

    But as usual, these are just my two cents and people who do more PvP will have a better feeling for this than I do.
    Rathothis|Tempest of Set || Tigrathes|Dark Templar || Isitnofret|Herald of Xotli
    BS|Sin|Demo|Barb|Conq
    Sudatorius|Noob barb on Rage

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