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Thread: Crazy T4 tactics?

  1. #21

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    Entity encounter is silly.
    Talking about what tactic is proper is silly also.

    To kill projection there is no need to have more than 5 melee classes each, so 10 in total for raid. If for whole instance t4 you like to have 6 soldiers, and next two are healers for projections (bs probably) it leves in raid only 2 melee spots left among sin, barbs and hoxes.
    Using melee characters who are not needed on projections to dps Entity with xbow is silly.
    Not bringing more than 2 melee dpsers to raid because there is no place for them in raid is silly.
    Switching even one melee toon to range is as much 'abusing mechanic' as switching 8.
    Hayde, dead Dark Templar of Xotli
    and her long forgotten brotherhood: Berbelek Bookah Esthle Esthlos Illea Jamei Margrid Sanessa Shahai Sharila Vassone Vizu Xami

  2. #22

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    Just leave Entity encounter alone.

    Having 2 ways to complete it is perfectly fine with me.

    If I'm not mistaken, isn't the generally accepted way to do Athyr Bast not supposed to be the "intended" strat, yet it's been done that way for 4 yrs?

  3. #23

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    Always like that does not mean it is the way it was intended. Take the cloud. Coppice for however long it was kite central. Phalactories in T3 (ignoring n burning without destroying). Basalisk (was easier (LOL) at one stage).

    Also unless the DS raid is a T4.5 or T5 this should be fixed, after all it is THE endgame content available.

  4. #24

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    Would be interesting to know how many guilds use each strat.

    I think the range heavy strat is probably the most common though.

  5. #25

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    So question is, if you are just grouping up and killing the Entity and ignoring the projections would this not be a semi exploit, kinda like Kiting Coppice or farming cloud?

    It is clearly designed that you need to kill the projections isnt it?
    No, not really an exploit.
    Think of it as first encounter in T3, technically you can kill the PoM last and just occupy it with a tank and a healer. Would be the exact same thing on Entity.
    God loves human virtues like courage and hope, but he loves screams, blood and despair just as much. If he didn't, there's no way fresh intestines could be so colorful!

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuls View Post
    No, not really an exploit.
    Think of it as first encounter in T3, technically you can kill the PoM last and just occupy it with a tank and a healer. Would be the exact same thing on Entity.
    Interesting - as far as I can see, killing Ixion(PoM) last, after the demo and guardian, is the standard tactic on Mitra; I'd guess on all european servers. Allowing Ixion to heal up his buddys just takes so much time.... It was done however this way in the old days of T3, when tanks were less good equipped, all had less AA etc.

    ----

    Maybe we should leave the Entity now;
    seems all is said about it.

    Properly done, all from 12-20 ranged DDs works fine.



    What about the other encounters?

    Any experiences with speedy kills, strange tactics, uncommon appraoches, funny tricks, crazy stuff?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlekin View Post
    Interesting - as far as I can see, killing Ixion(PoM) last, after the demo and guardian, is the standard tactic on Mitra; I'd guess on all european servers. Allowing Ixion to heal up his buddys just takes so much time.... It was done however this way in the old days of T3, when tanks were less good equipped, all had less AA etc.

    ----

    Maybe we should leave the Entity now;
    seems all is said about it.

    Properly done, all from 12-20 ranged DDs works fine.



    What about the other encounters?

    Any experiences with speedy kills, strange tactics, uncommon appraoches, funny tricks, crazy stuff?
    Standard tactic in the US is to kill the PoM boss while keeping the Guard/Demo as low as possible.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruhenous View Post
    Standard tactic in the US is to kill the PoM boss while keeping the Guard/Demo as low as possible.
    thats also very common on mitra

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlekin View Post
    Any experiences with speedy kills, strange tactics, uncommon appraoches, funny tricks, crazy stuff?
    The only thing I can think of is Sheng. Our Sheng kills normally are quite a bit faster then those of Mitra standard tactics raids. Normally after three (sometimes after two) Sky Pierces the boss has less than 30% health, we call in everyone to dps the boss and to get the quest update/AA exp and there won't happen a forth Sky Pierce.

    The difference in our tactic is not as drastic as you suggest, but we do have things that are not as other raids I know would do it:
    • We move things around a bit and assign different tasks to different classes
    • We have a slightly different tanking philosophy


    Moving things around:
    Obviously, if you want more DPS on the boss, you can achieve that with more people dpssing the boss. So, on a balanced setup we have 12 people on Sheng: 3 Tanks, 3 Healers and 6 damage dealers. That leaves 2 Tanks, 3 Healers and 6 damage dealers for Runners and adds and 1 Tank to kite the two mini bosses. On top of that you can assign damage dealers on the boss who are good at doing single damage or minus hate like assassins and barbarians. Sheng has low protection, so you'd expect demos and necros to have advantages, but because they're restricted by their minus hate value, they're not even close to be able to dps at their full potential.

    Like this, there are too few people to build one group for each door, so compared to standard raids, almost all add damage dealers from the left door are moved to the right one and we kill all adds at the right door. The task for the tank on the left door is to bring adds from left to right. We have one ToS and one Nec assinged to CC and kill the runner from the left door. If there are two runners from the left, some damage dealers from the right will help.

    Because almost all add killing happens at the right door, we tank the boss at the left fountain to reduce the chance of people running into Sky Pierce.

    Having so many adds together favours damage dealers who can do AoE. Having less people on adds also means having less people who can do ccs on runners. So you have to put classes there, who can do a lot of AoE and have a lot of fast CCs. The first class that comes to mind there are demos. Demos have amazing CCs. If they use Fiery Torment --> Storm Chains --> Possession CCs can even overwrite each other so that if done right one runner will stand still for over 10 seconds only because of one single player doing CCs. Because of that our demos are required to have Possession feated on the Sheng fight and are advised to not use Bindings as that puts Chains on CD (If they manage to have Chains ready when it's needed, they can use it though if they want). The other good class for that are HoXes. They also have good AoE damage and two fast CCs. We have one HoX who stands right before the right door (he won't even move away there if there's two runners from the left door) and uses his root as soon as his Runner is out. This can be done very fast, as there isn't even targetting required. Then he morphs and calls for the demo to take over. That way you need only two people to cc one runner. We form two pairs out of a HoX and Demo and assign one pair to the first runner that comes out of the right door and the other pair for the second. That reduces the chance for two demos/hoxes ccing the same runner. The PoM that is assigned on door duty can help with sw-kick (but be careful not to kick towards the lever). If all mentioned people are out of ccs they still can call for a ranger/bs or whatever is available on doors to do a cc.

    We leave one necro at the boss and tell him to use caster pets. If we don't do that, Storm of Arrows will be cast. I don't know why exactly -- after all these Sheng kills I still don't know the exact mechanics behind Storm of Arrows

    All in all we move ranged dps (except one necro) on door duty, because they generally have more and faster CCs, have AoE damage and they won't lose damage, if a runner or an add is moving away. That means we put Melee DPS (except HoXes) on Boss duty. As we had Storm of Arrows when we had only 11 people at the boss, we fill up the second boss group with rangers (fast CCs, ranged damage but lack of AoE) if there's not enough melee for the boss.

    Now with Assassins and Barbarians on the Boss Cyclone will become an issue. We have someone who does a timer for it and calls everyone except the three tanks to move away so that no one dies in Cyclone. We also sometimes noticed a cast of Storm of Arrows if people are to slow to move away from Cyclone in time. Sometimes Cyclone will be cast right after Sky Pierce. You have to be quick to move away then.

    So, in short, what do I mean with moving things around?
    • Move Assassins and Barbarians to dps the boss
    • Move Demos, Necros (except one) and Rangers to door duty
    • Move damage dealers from the left door to the right
    • Move the tanking spot for the boss from the right fountain to the left (that one is not necessary, it's just how we do it)

    The gain is to have more and more fitting damage dealers for the boss while having faster CCs and more AoE damage for runners and adds.

    Tanking the boss:
    To be able to put even more damage on the boss we try to provide an aggro level that is as high as possible. Our main idea here is to redefine Goad a bit. All our soldiers are required to have Goad in their tanking specs. For us, Goad isn't an emergency button but a tool to provide a high aggro level. As is well known, Goad in itself won't give you any more hate, but it is a tool that lets you even out aggro imbalaces between tanks. So, if a DT has some lucky crits and Goad is available, he won't hold back in favour of a "better" aggro balance but continue to hit knowing that another tank will use Goad profiting this way from these lucky crits as well. With Goad, Guardians will use StA knowing that they will get an aggro boost, but knowing as well that another Tank can use Goad to take the mob off of him.

    What does that mean for Sheng?
    Tanks have to move away at Trailing Strikes. We don't want the boss to follow after him (timers get messy, melees have more difficulties to dps, ...), so we use Goad to switch aggro at Trailing Strikes. We don't rely on soft spots because that would mean that tanks have to hold back so that aggro can switch smoothly if Trailing is cast. But as mentioned above, we don't want tanks to hold back, so that they can provide a high aggro level. We expect our tanks to be able to tank from one Trailing to another. DTs can pop DS after (!) Sky Pierce is cast (otherwise there will be Storm or Arrows). Every tank who has aggro can dish out everything he has that does burst hate not caring about aggro imbalances, because at the next Trailing Goad will be used anyway. So, Guardians can use StA, DTs can be pleased about lucky crits and continue to do damage and Conqs can use their burst abilities as well -- all in favour to provide a high aggro level for damage dealers to burn the boss quickly.
    Last edited by Areana; 6th April 2013 at 16:23.
    Defon (Guard)
    Nejoo (Guard) Areana (DT) Willamus (Conq)
    Ichkruchka (Demo) Defina (Necro) Defhid (HoX)
    Sagittaa (Ranger) Phaictan (Sin) Alunn (Barb)
    Defure (BS) Deforia (PoM) Nutiaret (ToS)

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruhenous View Post
    Standard tactic in the US is to kill the PoM boss while keeping the Guard/Demo as low as possible.
    RA kills the PoM boss last, not sure how many other US guilds do it that way.

    We've just found that it's faster for us to do it that way.

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