Polearm Tank: Is it possible?

[kalston]

Ye same for me. STA when solo tanking (so that's usually in 6 man stuff) and CW + Champion Spirit otherwise. CW does generate a lot of aggro (and okayish dps) when you have have some decent crit rating and it's controllable so it actually makes sense to use it when sharing aggro with other tanks.

[KullOfValusia]

I don't think pole arm guards can work, been grouping with carnage spec conqs who are fairly well geared but not t4 and they are pulling aggro like crazy. I'm spamming irritates and flashing arcs to no tomorrow and I still get locked out.

For a DT I just assume you'll get locked out (eventually)... guards really are a horrible class... and I know the naysayers are gonna come out of the woodworks but srsly I have a far far easier time getting and keeping aggro on my fresh 80 DT wearing a few blues.

[kalston]

I don't think pole arm guards can work, been grouping with carnage spec conqs who are fairly well geared but not t4 and they are pulling aggro like crazy. I'm spamming irritates and flashing arcs to no tomorrow and I still get locked out.

For a DT I just assume you'll get locked out (eventually)... guards really are a horrible class... and I know the naysayers are gonna come out of the woodworks but srsly I have a far far easier time getting and keeping aggro on my fresh 80 DT wearing a few blues.

Uh, carnage conqs or dps DTs are aggro magnets but that doesn't mean guard's aggro sucks.

[Misiuggah]

I don't think pole arm guards can work, been grouping with carnage spec conqs who are fairly well geared but not t4 and they are pulling aggro like crazy. I'm spamming irritates and flashing arcs to no tomorrow and I still get locked out.

For a DT I just assume you'll get locked out (eventually)... guards really are a horrible class... and I know the naysayers are gonna come out of the woodworks but srsly I have a far far easier time getting and keeping aggro on my fresh 80 DT wearing a few blues.

You talking only about pulling aggro and keeping it - what about staying alive? You know, I can pull aggro anytime with my PoM I'm often surprised how long a good guardian can stay alive when a DT/Conq would go down a few hits earlier.

I have different experience with guardians and polearms. In my old guild we had a poleguard who was an absolute aggro monster and noone could compete with him even in T4. I used to poletank T1-T3 and never had any aggro issues vs DT/conq - the best part was always the low gear requirement.

As for s'n's tanking: one of my old guildies was always playing a DT, but some time ago he made a guardian and was amazed how easy you can keep aggro with a fresh toon. He tanked T3-T4 while still having blue pieces and easily competed with ubergeared DTs and conqs. Right now he's full T4 and is maintanking raids with another DT/Guardian.

[KullOfValusia]

You talking only about pulling aggro and keeping it - what about staying alive? You know, I can pull aggro anytime with my PoM I'm often surprised how long a good guardian can stay alive when a DT/Conq would go down a few hits earlier.

I have different experience with guardians and polearms. In my old guild we had a poleguard who was an absolute aggro monster and noone could compete with him even in T4. I used to poletank T1-T3 and never had any aggro issues vs DT/conq - the best part was always the low gear requirement.

As for s'n's tanking: one of my old guildies was always playing a DT, but some time ago he made a guardian and was amazed how easy you can keep aggro with a fresh toon. He tanked T3-T4 while still having blue pieces and easily competed with ubergeared DTs and conqs. Right now he's full T4 and is maintanking raids with another DT/Guardian.

Hm, I just don't see this. I'm t2/3 guard and really with a pole there's only one mindless rotation. You throw a irritate or goad(if you want to steal aggro) and then proceed to guard destroyer and then flashing arc 8 or 7 (9 takes way way too long in terms of animation and you'll lose DPS doing this) and of course storm strike and then reckoning.

You'll grab aggro for a few secs then lose it. Once the conqs really get going. You'll also lose aggro to another s&s. The damage on a pole is also horrid... just 25% more (at least on my parse)then a s&s and that's from the ridiculously low base.

Carnage conqs going all out throwing their irritates and such will ALWAYS get and maintain aggro... this to me is broken.

Guards have one role and one role only, that's a tank. They can't combat rezz, they can't go all out DPS, they can't heal themselves or others, and apparently they are sub par and/or AT BEST an equal main tank.

This is ridiculous imho.

[kalston]

Hm, I just don't see this. I'm t2/3 guard and really with a pole there's only one mindless rotation. You throw a irritate or goad(if you want to steal aggro) and then proceed to guard destroyer and then flashing arc 8 or 7 (9 takes way way too long in terms of animation and you'll lose DPS doing this) and of course storm strike and then reckoning.

You'll grab aggro for a few secs then lose it. Once the conqs really get going. You'll also lose aggro to another s&s. The damage on a pole is also horrid... just 25% more (at least on my parse)then a s&s and that's from the ridiculously low base.

Carnage conqs going all out throwing their irritates and such will ALWAYS get and maintain aggro... this to me is broken.

Guards have one role and one role only, that's a tank. They can't combat rezz, they can't go all out DPS, they can't heal themselves or others, and apparently they are sub par and/or AT BEST an equal main tank.

This is ridiculous imho.

Huuum, Flashing arc 9 in my experience generates a lot more aggro and dps than lower ranks. So for me it's either FA9+FA8+SS (STA equipped) or FA9+CW+SS (this is also in my experience THE dps rotation when you play a DPS guard, which I sometimes do, and yeah I've topped parses but ofc good players with other classes can outdps me unless they severely lack gear).

And I do much more than +25% compared to S&S. With gear like mine (Khitai/t3) S&S is maybe 300dps at best (I'm very noob with S&S though but it's what I've seen on the successful S&S guards I parsed), pole is like 600-700 (when I have good heals and/or a good OT). Also you forgot to mention Cry of Havoc. You could even use Hateful Strikes if you struggle so much (I actually don't spec it and go for +dps stuff instead, works for me)
I don't bother switching to S&S for Guard Destroyer's shitty debuff (I rely on other classes debuffing for me) because I lose Guard's armour buff (and IIRC you also lose Disarming Aggression which is a major DPS/aggro boost).

To me it sounds like you need a better spec or just need to learn your current one (no offence meant, give me a S&S spec and I'll be an abysmal tank for some time till I get used to it).

I think conqs and Dts in particular are simply over the top, but I don't think Guards are THAT bad either. I actually don't really want a buff because knowing FC chances are that will make us even more OP in pvp. That would be silly. Soldiers need to be tuned down in pvp and, IMO, Conqs and DTs need tweaking pve wise as well.

Btw give me a crafted t3 pole (or t4) and let's see how much DPS and aggro I can push Only have normal t3 one atm (super low crits )

[Pimmz]

I'll just throw in my experience.

I recently started tanking with pole, after a long time of SS tanking.
- gear: guard t4 small, guard t4 chestpiece, fort helm, LL hate legs.
T4 sword+vengeance(t2quest)(yes lol,luck has not been on the shield department)+t4 pole.
- perks: elusive nature + pressing (i never use sta)

I think i realy maxed out the s/s agro from the guard.
spamming the agro ability's with with the good dmg crit burst afterwards. which results ~400dps and holding agro for 30 seconds while the maniac dt(tank) is critting like hell and then loose it to him for eternity if he doesn't stop. which is in my experience, compared to the other guards quite an extensive amount of time of holding agro.

switching to polespec (which i only use for armor mitigation fights)
- in stat of t4 guard hands ill use the sepulcher hands.
- The featbuild is semi dps based with cry of havoc and hatefull strikes.
the initial agro burst from ability's is a bit lower, and will the loose the agro for a second to the dt, but that is only for a second. Once i start dpsing i will get the agro back.
starting with SS+reckning > guard > disable > flashing arc8.
Then soon, I need to stop, becouse i find myself suddenly low on health with the dt's quite a bit behind on the agro.
i only have 10% crit rating, but once i get my dt t4 bigpieces my crit and also agro will skyrocket(expectation)
my build results in about 750dps.

in conclusion: at this point i've already "broken the limits" of the agro of the s/s guard and the pole gives me more control of my agro.

i do advice lower geared guards to go s/s. it will have more agro and defensive features compared to the pole. especially if you are a beginner. with the right build, you will hold agro off everyone.
(everyone who is not fully khitai epic geared yet)

Pimmz

[KullOfValusia]

For one reason or another shields never seem to drop quite as much as everything else. Along with guard gear in general.

Anyhow, I'm currently in mostly in t2 with a couple of t3 pieces with a t2 pole. If this is too high of a gear threshold then this certainly should be looked to give guards more freedom of choice on builds.

[Pimmz]

i think its quite normal not to get the agro you want with the polearm. depending on your accesories, you want dps/crits for polespec. the t2/t3 guard gear is not known for its dps:P, it is known for his high amount of mitigation

i just scrolled abit through this thread, but i think i saw you did not use cry of havoc or hatefull strikes to get agro in polespec.
(i could be wrong, and that you do have them) but those are essential

[KullOfValusia]

i think its quite normal not to get the agro you want with the polearm. depending on your accesories, you want dps/crits for polespec. the t2/t3 guard gear is not known for its dps:P, it is known for his high amount of mitigation

i just scrolled abit through this thread, but i think i saw you did not use cry of havoc or hatefull strikes to get agro in polespec.
(i could be wrong, and that you do have them) but those are essential

Exactly, and I also heard pole arm for anything under full t3 can't really work..which is too bad especially since no guard shields seem to ever drop from the game. lol.