Guard Suggestion

[kennyfisterbotm]

No, Shou Im not wrong. The first time I blew you out of the water. The 2nd time, you pulled about 50% of the time because my stuff was on cd. How about the kang pagoda we were in where I ended up needing to tank the adds because you couldnt hold agro?

You need to be a little more open to people doing different things. Maybe youll find someone does something different that has better results.

LOL, I couldn't hold aggro? Seriously?

You ninja charged the boss while the adds targeted you, then denied it. I'm not going to get into a flame match with you at all. Not to mention your memory seems to be a bit flakey at best with your supposed supreme aggro.

Simply put, guards are no comparison to DT's. If you really want to test your supreme tanking skills out get ahold of a TEG DT, and we will see.

[statica01]

LOL, I couldn't hold aggro? Seriously?

You ninja charged the boss while the adds targeted you, then denied it. I'm not going to get into a flame match with you at all. Not to mention your memory seems to be a bit flakey at best with your supposed supreme aggro.

Simply put, guards are no comparison to DT's. If you really want to test your supreme tanking skills out get ahold of a TEG DT, and we will see.

I dont have to. I hold my own against Genius

I never said i was the best. I said Im average. Its in the first line of my post. Maybe you missed it.

And I dont want to get in a flame war either. But just because someone has a different opinion than you does not make them wrong. It just means they do things differently. Theres many ways to play this game. Maybe its not how YOU play, but it DOES work and could help someone

[KullOfValusia]

The devs probably have exact numbers and really they can run through every permutation since they have all the aggro formulas in front of them. If they find a discrepancy where a DT just kills a guard on aggro then I'm sure they'll change it. Since that's pretty much all a guard can do these days.

[kennyfisterbotm]

I don't mind different opinions. But saying things like the grass is blue when it is green isn't an opinon, it's a statment of which a person is wrong.

Equally talented guard vs DT, the DT will win out every time. As I stated, the only times it wont is when the damage deflection encounter of which a guard will do better.

Most high end guilds will have soldier who agree with this. You are honestly the only exception I have seen so far. But to each their own, if you think the guard is ok. Then cool. But for the rest of us. It's not!

With that said, lets get back on track.

Guards need some loving!

[statica01]

....maybe if you gave my way a try without poo pooing on it, youd be suprised at what it does vs a dt Heck, to prove a point, Id send you my spec and rotation. Will have to be when i get home though, if your willing to be open minded.

[Scaevacas]

I'd be interested in seeing that too.

I'm in a situation where I'm usually 3rd on aggro in most fights, with either a Conquerer or DT (both very good players) ahead of me on aggro. I do play with 330-360ms latency though.

[kennyfisterbotm]

....maybe if you gave my way a try without poo pooing on it, youd be suprised at what it does vs a dt Heck, to prove a point, Id send you my spec and rotation. Will have to be when i get home though, if your willing to be open minded.

Being open minded is what I am all about. But the thing is, you aren't open minded to the idea that I haven't already tried this.

Also, I don't see loosing mitigation and survivability "What a guard is supposed to do" for simply hanging with that of a DT who gets this all passivly. The fact that you have to sacrifice all that mitigation and survivability to just hang with your DT's in your guild is proof enough.

A DT can sacrifice mitigation and gain aggro, but also gain life tap's that counter that of the mitigation loss. If a guard looses mitigation and it's tools "jugg and strike and guard" it gains just aggro, and even then it's not much at all.

I have spent alot of time and gold feating into different things. It doesn't help much and I'm sorry to disagree with you. But again, send the info. I'll look at it, but chances are I have tried it already and it didn't work. As you are wanting me to try stuff, I want you to try and hold aggro against one of the TEG DT's then aswell. Say "Midge" for example, come into a T4 instance and try holding it off of him on adds or what ever, it's next to impossible.

[TeamVernia]

....maybe if you gave my way a try without poo pooing on it, youd be suprised at what it does vs a dt Heck, to prove a point, Id send you my spec and rotation. Will have to be when i get home though, if your willing to be open minded.

I gotta side with Getta. I'm able to swap aggro with the TEG tanks with my DT (yes they are awesome), and Getta has no problem getting up to that same aggro level. At a certain point I see all 3 tanks as created equal (strictly aggro). Guard, DT, and Conq can all seem like aggro hogs depending on the specifics of the fight.

[Mellaus]

The guardian class is unlikely to see any kind of change/tweak in the near future.
Which is unfortunate, since of the three soldier classes, it is the most boring and the one with the less versatility.

Frankly, if only jugg could get better team support abilities and higher damages output and tempest could get (slightly) higher survivibility and more aggro management tools, that would be awesome.

[kennyfisterbotm]

I gotta side with Getta. I'm able to swap aggro with the TEG tanks with my DT (yes they are awesome), and Getta has no problem getting up to that same aggro level. At a certain point I see all 3 tanks as created equal (strictly aggro). Guard, DT, and Conq can all seem like aggro hogs depending on the specifics of the fight.

DT's get 2k dps........... Guards 400-500 = DT's win

DT's get Curse of Gwahlur........ Guards get innate threat = same

DT's get hate modification.......Guards get hate modification = DT wins due to more dps.

Sacrificing mitigation for dps:
DT's loose mitigation but gain life taps......... Guards just loose mitigation and the functionality of being a guard = DT wins

Where on here do you see that the guard class wins at all? I don't see it! These are all facts, not opinions based on variable player experiances. Meening, you haven't the slightest idea of how Midge or another TEG DT plays, and I haven't the slightest idea of how your guards/dt's play in a T4 setting.

So both mine and your opinions are complete trash when we try and compare this type of evidence. The numbers and the types of tools each class has, is reason enough to understand that the guard class needs change.